Basal E-P177(E1b*) assigned to Yemeni on FtDNA and Yfull

[Jerome]

FtDNA has classified and assigned a Yemeni individual to E-P177*
The sample was registered with FTDNA Company with the number IN130017
-It was uploaded to Yfull Tree with the number YF128201


He can be seen here.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-P177*/


"The result is positive for the upper mutation E-P177, negative for 90 mutations synonymous with it, and positive for 8 mutations synonymous with it only, and it has 526 specific mutations.
The specific result was isolated about 45-50 thousand years ago, where the E-P177 strain was divided into two parts, divided into all the biology results, and divided into the Yemeni Wasabi result. The sample will greatly affect the structure of the E-P177 mutation and the location of its origin"


This split happened around 45-50K years ago,shortly after the DE split happened (55KYA).
This guy seems to be a very early split in P-177 which is a huge news since he is ancestral to all extant E1B downstreams.

Combined with Basal D0 in a Yemeni and Syrian(more basal than the Nigerian D0) the case for DE being Basal-Eurasian or P originally and splitting somewhere around Nile Valley, Sinai and Hijaz is becoming stronger.
Combined with the fact that all Africans with early split seem to be A0,A and B.

We need more sampling from ancient middle East and Nile valley, especially upper paleolithic era samples.

Just like C and F were once 100% of the European Y-dna yet now less than 1%,same situation could have happened in middle East and Nile Valley.


More can be read here about the sample

https://twitter.com/JassasTY8849/status/...2377819632

[Riverman]

Yemen and the Gulf states are in my opinion good candidates for both the origin of Basal Eurasian and DE/E. However, without having samples the Near East and North East Africa before the Natufian period, we are still guessing, because even basal variants can migrate.

[Southpaw]

Yemen was under the rule of Kingdom of Aksum for a time.

Ethiopian highlands are the best bet for the origin of Y-DNA E.

[Megalophias]

This guy seems to be a very early split in P-177 which is a huge news since he is ancestral to all extant E1B downstreams.

Combined with Basal D0 in a Yemeni and Syrian(more basal than the Nigerian D0)....

Unfortunately Arabia is orders of magnitude more densely tested than Africa, which makes all conclusions from present-day diversity very doubtful.

On the FTDNA tree there are 3 D0 branches: one contains a few Arabs, one several Nigerians, an American, and a couple of Saudis, and one an American and two of unknown origin. Anyone know anything about that last one - is it African-American or what?

[Capsian20]

This guy seems to be a very early split in P-177 which is a huge news since he is ancestral to all extant E1B downstreams.

Combined with Basal D0 in a Yemeni and Syrian(more basal than the Nigerian D0)....

Unfortunately Arabia is orders of magnitude more densely tested than Africa, which makes all conclusions from present-day diversity very doubtful.

On the FTDNA tree there are 3 D0 branches: one contains a few Arabs, one several Nigerians, an American, and a couple of Saudis, and one an American and two of unknown origin. Anyone know anything about that last one - is it African-American or what?

If you look to subclade E-V38 < M329 , at first glance, this branch might seem more Arab than some Arab branches from Y-DNA Hg J-P58 and E-M84

[TanTin]

Translated from Arabic by(*Google*)
https://twitter.com/JassasTY8849/status/...2377819632

In cooperation with the E-M84 project:

We are pleased to announce a qualitative Yemeni result, for brother Muhammad bin Salem bin Saleh Al-Shukri from Shukr district, from Wisab Al-Safil, from Dhamar, Yemen.

The sample was registered with FTDNA Company with the number IN130017
-It was uploaded to Yfull Tree with the number YF128201

The qualitative result is positive for the upper mutation E-P177, negative for 90 mutations synonymous with it, and positive for 8 mutations synonymous with it only, and it has 526 specific mutations.
The specific result was isolated about 45-50 thousand years ago, where the E-P177 strain was divided into two parts, divided into all the biology results, and divided into the Yemeni Wasabi result. The sample will greatly affect the structure of the E-P177 mutation and the location of its origin.

[Capsian20]

Yemen and the Gulf states are in my opinion good candidates for both the origin of Basal Eurasian and DE/E. However, without having samples the Near East and North East Africa before the Natufian period, we are still guessing, because even basal variants can migrate.

I dont think it Hg DE and E formed in Horn Africa
there linked history between Yemen and horn african
this samples E-P177* ( there other sample from South Africa belong in this subclade ) so is clear Hg E is formed in Africa

[TanTin]

Yemen and the Gulf states are in my opinion good candidates for both the origin of Basal Eurasian and DE/E. However, without having samples the Near East and North East Africa before the Natufian period, we are still guessing, because even basal variants can migrate.

I dont think it Hg DE and E formed in Horn Africa
there linked history between Yemen and horn african
this samples E-P177* ( there other sample from South Africa belong in this subclade ) so is clear Hg E is formed in Africa

For me Yemen and Arabian peninsula is the perfect place for the formation of  DE and E and also C.
It is OOA, and from there these hg spread in different directions, but not back to Africa. If it was in Africa, we should see some of them also existing in Africa. But we see only hg E which migrated back to Africa.  All others are missing.  One of the  initial hypothesis was that hg DE was formed in South Asia, near India.

[alchemist223]

This guy seems to be a very early split in P-177 which is a huge news since he is ancestral to all extant E1B downstreams.

Combined with Basal D0 in a Yemeni and Syrian(more basal than the Nigerian D0)....

Unfortunately Arabia is orders of magnitude more densely tested than Africa, which makes all conclusions from present-day diversity very doubtful.

On the FTDNA tree there are 3 D0 branches: one contains a few Arabs, one several Nigerians, an American, and a couple of Saudis, and one an American and two of unknown origin. Anyone know anything about that last one - is it African-American or what?

Strongly agree with this.

[Inquirer]

FtDNA has classified and assigned a Yemeni individual to E-P177*
The sample was registered with FTDNA Company with the number IN130017
-It was uploaded to Yfull Tree with the number YF128201


He can be seen here.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-P177*/


"The result is positive for the upper mutation E-P177, negative for 90 mutations synonymous with it, and positive for 8 mutations synonymous with it only, and it has 526 specific mutations.
The specific result was isolated about 45-50 thousand years ago, where the E-P177 strain was divided into two parts, divided into all the biology results, and divided into the Yemeni Wasabi result. The sample will greatly affect the structure of the E-P177 mutation and the location of its origin"


This split happened around 45-50K years ago,shortly after the DE split happened (55KYA).
This guy seems to be a very early split in P-177 which is a huge news since he is ancestral to all extant E1B downstreams.

Combined with Basal D0 in a Yemeni and Syrian(more basal than the Nigerian D0) the case for DE being Basal-Eurasian or P originally and splitting somewhere around Nile Valley, Sinai and Hijaz is becoming stronger.
Combined with the fact that all Africans with early split seem to be A0,A and B.

We need more sampling from ancient middle East and Nile valley, especially upper paleolithic era samples.

Just like C and F were once 100% of the European Y-dna yet now less than 1%,same situation could have happened in middle East and Nile Valley.


More can be read here about the sample

https://twitter.com/JassasTY8849/status/...2377819632

DE developed into D-CTS3946 and E-M96 approximately 65,200 years ago, according to Y-Full. Where did you get 45-50 kya from? Are you referring to the MRCAs of D-CTS3946 and E-M96? According to Y-Full, that of E-M96 lived approximately 52,300 kya, and that of D-CTS3946 lived approximately 46,500 kya.

[Inquirer]

Any updates on this sample or on E-P177? This is a fascinating discovery.

[sin]

This vindicates a Eurasian origin for DE. Likely around the 50kya mark.

[Horatio McCallister]

On yfull virtually every higher-order primary branch of E has a basal Arabian branch (and even B has some deeply diverged Arabian-based clades). I think it's highly unlikely that all these can be hand-waved away due to "oversampling" of Arabs - why does the "oversampling" seem to only be turning up deeply basal branches of E and not G, J, C, H, etc? The archaeological record of the Arabian Peninsula is under-excavated but it's clear enough that there was human habitation throughout the later end of the Pleistocene, it wasn't just an uninhabited wasteland for tens of thousands of years until the Neolithic era. It's completely reasonable to think these rare, ultra-diverged branches of E represent living relics of a time when various E clades represented the majority population of Arabia before the Neolithic and later turnovers.

I also don't buy that Africans are all that under-sampled, by now we have enough commercial samples from African Americans, Caribbeans, Afro-Latinos, and those have already turned up ultra rare lineages like D0 and A00, but yet still we have these uniquely Arabian basal branches still standing. I will concede that we could use more samples from geographically proximate locations (namely Ethiopia and South Sudan) but just looking at the internal structure of E-M329, the Mota lineage, on yfull, it seems like that branch could have a pretty deep presence in Arabia. Even E-M2 has a Saudi primary branch.

[Riverman]

On yfull virtually every higher-order primary branch of E has a basal Arabian branch (and even B has some deeply diverged Arabian-based clades). I think it's highly unlikely that all these can be hand-waved away due to "oversampling" of Arabs - why does the "oversampling" seem to only be turning up deeply basal branches of E and not G, J, C, H, etc? The archaeological record of the Arabian Peninsula is under-excavated but it's clear enough that there was human habitation throughout the later end of the Pleistocene, it wasn't just an uninhabited wasteland for tens of thousands of years until the Neolithic era. It's completely reasonable to think these rare, ultra-diverged branches of E represent living relics of a time when various E clades represented the majority population of Arabia before the Neolithic and later turnovers.

I also don't buy that Africans are all that under-sampled, by now we have enough commercial samples from African Americans, Caribbeans, Afro-Latinos, and those have already turned up ultra rare lineages like D0 and A00, but yet still we have these uniquely Arabian basal branches still standing. I will concede that we could use more samples from geographically proximate locations (namely Ethiopia and South Sudan) but just looking at the internal structure of E-M329, the Mota lineage, on yfull, it seems like that branch could have a pretty deep presence in Arabia. Even E-M2 has a Saudi primary branch.

I also agree for another reason: Many of the derived E branches have not just one member from Eastern Africa, but whole founder events with many, many testers. That suggests to me that while there are seriously undersampled African regions, the sampling in total is not necessarily that bad at all any more.

A good example comes from this recent founder branch of 
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z813/ With samples from Kenia, Ethiopia, Somalia.
Another recent founder:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M293/ With samples from Kenia, Burundi-Rwanda, South Africa.

What's typical is that all these branches of E-M215 are associated with Afro-Asiatic herders in East Africa, which origins go back to their West Eurasian part of ancestry. And E-M215 is about 40.000 years old.

But in the end, especially if looking at the, for me most interesting, haplogroup of E-M78, we simply need pre-Natufian samples from the Near East, especially Southern Levante and South Arabia, plus Egypt.

[Megalophias]

A quick back of the envelope calculation suggests that Saudi E is close to 1000 times as well represented on YFull as Ethiopian E.