Chinese GEDmatch averages thread [repost]

[okarinaofsteiner]

Updated Illustrative DNA ancient models for the G25 Han Chinese province (capital city) subgroups:

Han (Shanxi): 91.6% Yellow River Neolithic, 0.0% SEA Neolithic, 0.2% AASI, 0.6% E_Siberian HG, 0.0% Caucasus HG, 1.4% Anatolian Neolithic, 6.6% Mongolian HG, 0.2% Melanesian
Han (Henan): 94.8% Yellow River Neolithic, 0.0% SEA Neolithic, 0.0% AASI, 0.6% E_Siberian HG, 1.4% Caucasus HG, 3.2% Mongolian HG
Han (Shandong): 97.2% Yellow River Neolithic, 0.0% SEA Neolithic, 1.2% AASI, 1.6% E_Siberian HG

Han (Shanghai): 93.8% Yellow River Neolithic, 5.6% SEA Neolithic, 0.4% AASI, 0.2% Caucasus HG
Han (Beijing): 92.0% Yellow River Neolithic, 7.4% SEA Neolithic, 0.6% E_Siberian HG

Han (Jiangsu): 94.2% Yellow River Neolithic, 5.8% SEA Neolithic
Han (Zhejiang): 87.6% Yellow River Neolithic, 12.4% SEA Neolithic
Han (Hubei): 85.8% Yellow River Neolithic, 14.2% SEA Neolithic
Han (Sichuan): 81.4% Yellow River Neolithic, 18.6% SEA Neolithic
Han (Chongqing): 77.0% Yellow River Neolithic, 23.0% SEA Neolithic
Han (Fujian): 74.8% Yellow River Neolithic, 25.2% SEA Neolithic
Han (Guangdong): 62.5% Yellow River Neolithic, 37.5% SEA Neolithic

The northern Chinese reference population models all lack SEA Neolithic, while the southern Chinese reference population models are all 2-way admixture models between Yellow River Neolithic (Neolithic Northern China) and SEA Neolithic (Bronze Age Vietnam). The Shanghai G25 sample resembles the Jiangsu G25 sample autosomally but shows similar signs of "Silk Road" admixture as the Northern Han G25 samples, albeit to a much lower degree. Oddly enough, the Beijing G25 sample is both more southern-shifted than the Shanghai sample due to being more cosmopolitan, but without the signs of Silk Road admixture that you'd expect considering Beijing's location in northern China and history as a capital during long periods of non-Han rule. This makes me think "Beijing" is really CHB from 1000 Genomes- the sample of university students in Beijing who generally aren't Beijing natives.

For comparison, here are my updated results:
okarinaofsteiner: 92.0% Yellow River Neolithic, 5.2% SEA Neolithic, 1.8% E_Siberian HG, 0.6% S_America HG, 0.4% Melanesian

[okarinaofsteiner]

Newest 23Mofang data seems to have lowered the Northern Han percentages of Guangdong for cities/regions outside of Toechew and the Pearl River Delta, while slightly increased the Northern Han percentages for Guangxi.

Here's a comparison between the Northern Han percentages of Guangdong and Guangxi:

For Guangdong:

• 21% of Northern Han for Shenzhen, which is the highest in Lingnan, and is to be expected given that it's a migrant city
  
• 13% of Northern Han for Zhuhai, a metropolis in the Pearl River Delta
  
• 12% of Northern Han for Chaozhou and Shantou, which are cities in Teochew / Chaoshan
  
• 9% of Northern Han for Jieyang, another city located near Teochew in Eastern Guangdong
  
• 8% of Northern Han for Meizhou, which is a Hakka-speaking city in Eastern Guangdong
  
• 6% to 7% of Northern Han for Guangzhou and Zhongshan, both are cities in the Pearl River Delta
  
• 5% to 6% of Northern Han for Shanwei, Shaoguan, and Heyuan, which are small Hakka speaking cities in Northern and Eastern Guangdong
  

For all other cities / towns in Guangdong, the percentage of Northern Han is lower than 5%, with the lowest being the Cantonese speaking city of Zhaoqing in Western Guangdong only around 1.5%. The most surprising one is Huizhou, which despite being predominantly Hakka speaking, only has about 4% Northern Han

Now let's look at the situation in Guangxi:

• Weirdly enough, the city with the highest percentage of Northern Han in Guangxi is Baise or Bose, which has 12% of Northern Han. It's weird because Baise / Bose is supposed to be a predominantly Zhuang speaking area
  
• The second highest is Fangcheng Gang, with nearly 9% of Northern Han. Again rather weird because this city is situated on the border between Guangxi and Vietnam with a large Kinh population
  
• Then comes Liuzhou and Guilin both around 7% to 8% Northern Han, still somewhat unexpected because both cities have a fairly substantial Zhuang and Hmong-Mien speaking population
  
• 5% to 7% Northern Han for Beihai and the provincial capital of Nanning
  
• 5% Northern Han for Hechi, another Zhuang speaking region
  
• 3% to 4% Northern Han for Guigang and Yulin, both are predominantly Cantonese speaking though with some Zhuang and Hakka speakers as well
  
• 2% to 3% Northern Han for Laibin and Qinzhou, predominantly Cantonese and Zhuang speaking
  
• 2% Northern Han for Hezhou and Wuzhou, predominantly Cantonese though with substantial Zhuang and Yao / Mien speakers
  
• 0% Northern Han for Chongzuo the lowest in all of Lingnan, being a Zhuang speaking region located on the border with Vietnam
  

[okarinaofsteiner]

Updated Illustrative DNA ancient models for the G25 Han Chinese province (capital city) subgroups:

Han (Shanxi): 91.6% Yellow River Neolithic, 0.0% SEA Neolithic, 0.2% AASI, 0.6% E_Siberian HG, 0.0% Caucasus HG, 1.4% Anatolian Neolithic, 6.6% Mongolian HG, 0.2% Melanesian
Han (Henan): 94.8% Yellow River Neolithic, 0.0% SEA Neolithic, 0.0% AASI, 0.6% E_Siberian HG, 1.4% Caucasus HG, 3.2% Mongolian HG
Han (Shandong): 97.2% Yellow River Neolithic, 0.0% SEA Neolithic, 1.2% AASI, 1.6% E_Siberian HG

Han (Shanghai): 93.8% Yellow River Neolithic, 5.6% SEA Neolithic, 0.4% AASI, 0.2% Caucasus HG
Han (Beijing): 92.0% Yellow River Neolithic, 7.4% SEA Neolithic, 0.6% E_Siberian HG

Han (Jiangsu): 94.2% Yellow River Neolithic, 5.8% SEA Neolithic
Han (Zhejiang): 87.6% Yellow River Neolithic, 12.4% SEA Neolithic
Han (Hubei): 85.8% Yellow River Neolithic, 14.2% SEA Neolithic
Han (Sichuan): 81.4% Yellow River Neolithic, 18.6% SEA Neolithic
Han (Chongqing): 77.0% Yellow River Neolithic, 23.0% SEA Neolithic
Han (Fujian): 74.8% Yellow River Neolithic, 25.2% SEA Neolithic
Han (Guangdong): 62.5% Yellow River Neolithic, 37.5% SEA Neolithic

The northern Chinese reference population models all lack SEA Neolithic, while the southern Chinese reference population models are all 2-way admixture models between Yellow River Neolithic (Neolithic Northern China) and SEA Neolithic (Bronze Age Vietnam). The Shanghai G25 sample resembles the Jiangsu G25 sample autosomally but shows similar signs of "Silk Road" admixture as the Northern Han G25 samples, albeit to a much lower degree. Oddly enough, the Beijing G25 sample is both more southern-shifted than the Shanghai sample due to being more cosmopolitan, but without the signs of Silk Road admixture that you'd expect considering Beijing's location in northern China and history as a capital during long periods of non-Han rule. This makes me think "Beijing" is really CHB from 1000 Genomes- the sample of university students in Beijing who generally aren't Beijing natives.

For comparison, here are my updated results:
okarinaofsteiner: 92.0% Yellow River Neolithic, 5.2% SEA Neolithic, 1.8% E_Siberian HG, 0.6% S_America HG, 0.4% Melanesian

https://np.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/...25_groups/
Posted this blurb on r/illustrativeDNA too. For whatever reason r/23andMe wouldn't let me crosspost my post there.

[okarinaofsteiner]

Inter-Chinese hybrid... I wonder how different my parents are genetically, from let's say a French and a Russian person since that's the approximate distance from their two provinces https://archive.ph/sBL1k

Born in Guangzhou, moved to Canada when I was a kid. My parents' home provinces are the top two on the screenshot.

1/2 Shandong 1/2 Guangdong 1.5 gen ChinCan result: 41.4% Northern Han, 40.6% Lingnan Han, 16.4% non-Lingnan Southern Han, 1.4% Broadly Chinese

[okarinaofsteiner]

http://web.archive.org/web/2021082502053...verdue_im/

u/caspears on this (I think Hunan?) adoptee who scored 58% pre-update Chinese and 42% Dai

My wife is Canto, both sides of her family come from the Pearl River Delta area, and she has like 10% Dai, 10% Viet, which is not strange at all...that entire area was controlled by ancient "Tai" speaking peoples, and at one time was held by Viet related peoples as well. Some even argue that Cantonese has a "Tai" substrata to the language

That being being said your numbers are very high, one of your parents was either Tai(Dai) or an ethnic minority closely related to them like Zhuang.

Haplogroup M is not unknown in Han people, in fact it is scattered as far as Japan, and down into Southeast Asia - it is quite old, without knowing subclade, it won't be very helpful, even then...how Guangdong was initially populated was by Han Chinese male soldiers who "took" local "wives", and raised the kids as Han. Overtime more Chinese migrated south due to wars in the north or to get more land.

So many people in Southern China have the same MTDNA haplogroups as the minority groups around them (and people in Northern Southeast Asia)...

This person deleted their r/23andMe results some point after 2021. The exact percentages were 57.3% Chinese (Guangdong + 9 other regions) and 42.7% Chinese Dai. https://np.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments...verdue_im/

[–]_______-__________-_ 34 points 3 years ago*
I know that, but the dai percentage is extremely high, highest I’ve ever seen

[–] ________________ 37 points 3 years ago
Very cool results! I’ve never seen anyone score that high of a Chinese Dai percentage on r/23andMe either