The Moriopoulos G25 Collection - 2025 Edition

[Michalis Moriakos]

For the G25 entries that have appended phrases like (High Steppe Profile, Baltic Profile, ...), are these phrases found in the scientific journal studies that the samples are from? In other words, if you obtained a sample from a study of a Medieval Hungarian, does the study ever have the phrase "High Steppe Profile" appended in the description of the sample?

Sometimes the studies will single out outliers with that kind of terminology and sometimes they don't. They very rarely would use the Profile names that I use but they'll often acknowledge a sample is clearly of a certain type in the paper if it's interesting to them to do so.

Actually the real power of this collection is the disambiguation into profiles of these heterogeneous clusters as almost no one else has the time (or will take the time) to do that kind of work. I pride myself on it. Really helps sort things out.

Can you convert MDLP K23b to G25?

Nope, sorry.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

Mine

Distance to: Mitchell_scaled
0.01510392 Hungary_Early_Medieval_Lombard_Period_(Northern_Euro_Profile)_(low_res)_(n=6)
0.01548865 Scottish_(n=35)
0.01558884 Dutch_Gelderland_(n=4)
0.01565426 Orcadian_(n=35)
0.01612213 Germany_High_Medieval_Rathausmarkt_(n=8)
0.01612673 Dutch_Central_(n=27)
0.01621092 Dutch_North_Holland_(n=5)
0.01621915 Netherlands_Early_Medieval_Groningen_(n=5)
0.01649556 Dutch_North+Central_(n=6)
0.01659808 Northern_Irish_(n=1)
0.01661240 Dutch_(n=167)
0.01666667 Dutch_South_Holland_(n=24)
0.01670279 German_Lower_Saxony_(n=11)
0.01674594 German_Westphalia_(n=10)
0.01709331 Dutch_Overijssel_(n=4)
0.01717838 Frisian_Netherlands_(n=78)
0.01725550 Irish_(n=105)
0.01747606 English_(n=44)
0.01761998 Danish_(n=86)
0.01768992 Frisian_Netherlands_o1_(n=3)
0.01770764 German-American/Canadian_Russian_Mennonite_(n=29)
0.01777534 German_North_(n=10)
0.01784515 Dutch_North_(n=7)
0.01796873 Austria_Early_Medieval_Avar_Period_(Northwest_Euro_Profile)_(n=4)
0.01805753 German_Schleswig-Holstein_(n=6)

Target: Mitchell_scaled
Distance: 0.8480% / 0.00848008 | ADC: 0.5x RC
24.4 Germany_Early_Medieval_Baiuvaric_Straubing-Bajuwarenstrasse_(Northern_Euro_Profile)_(low_res)_(n=3)
17.4 England_High_Medieval_Lincoln_(n=1)
15.2 Denmark_Early_Medieval_Viking_Age_Langeland_(Mixed_Northern_Euro_Profile)_(n=2)
13.0 England_MIA_(low_res)_(n=5)
12.0 Hungary_Early_Medieval_Lombard_Period_(Northern_Euro_Profile)_(low_res)_(n=6)
7.8 Denmark_High_Medieval_Randers_o2_(n=1)
5.8 Chelyabinsk_MLBA_Petrovka_Stepnoe_(low_res)_(n=1)
4.4 Northern_Irish_(n=1)

Target: Mitchell_scaled
Distance: 0.7331% / 0.00733120 | R5P
28.6 England_MIA_(low_res)_(n=5)
26.4 Germany_Early_Medieval_Baiuvaric_Straubing-Bajuwarenstrasse_(Northern_Euro_Profile)_(low_res)_(n=3)
23.2 England_High_Medieval_Lincoln_(n=1)
14.8 Bulgaria_CA_o_(low_res)_(n=1)
7.0 Russia_Kalmykia_MBA_Catacomb_(low_res)_(n=1)

[ChrisR]

The sims-inclusive version of the collection is built on a combined total of 40,285 individuals (13,533 ancients and 26,752 moderns). These group into 6,432 averages. This is a significant update from the ~5000 averages based on ~30,000 coords in the 2024 edition.
----
MORIOPOULOS COLLECTION 2025
All Averages (With Sims)
All Averages (No Sims)

Ancients Only Averages (With Sims)
Ancients Only Averages (No Sims)

Moderns Only Averages (With Sims)
Moderns Only Averages (No Sims)
----
Consequently, the averages in the 2025 update are based on a huge sample size of over 40,000 individuals.

I like to save the files with descriptive names. Currently I have:
202502 Moriopoulos Collection - Ancients (No Sims) 3940 Averages.txt
202502 Moriopoulos Collection - Ancients (With Sims) 3963 Averages of 13533.txt
202502 Moriopoulos Collection - Moderns (No Sims) 2080 Averages.txt
202502 Moriopoulos Collection - Moderns (With Sims) 2469 Averages of 26752.txt

@Michalis: do you have the sum of used individuals for the No Sims Ancients and Moderns?
Thanks also for your work and keeping it up to date.

[Whyismylifesodull]

Here's rest of the BMCB2021 samples.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19pgif1m...sp=sharing

This seems to be the paper where they are from.

https://bmcbiol.biomedcentral.com/articl...21-00981-x

Great looking out! I recall seeing these pops show up in studies but we never did get their coords until now. This is a significant update for Southeast Asia-- thank you very much!

We have the  HGDP-derived individuals already (the ones prefixed with "Sample" above in your coords document). But the other samples are totally novel.

I don't mind searching for new datasets. The more coordinates we have, the better.

Btw it seems like we don't have any Oraon/Kurukh and Malto samples yet. 

This study seem to be about them but I cannot find the genotype data: https://www.pivotscipub.com/hpgg/5/1/0003/html

[teepean]

Great looking out! I recall seeing these pops show up in studies but we never did get their coords until now. This is a significant update for Southeast Asia-- thank you very much!

We have the  HGDP-derived individuals already (the ones prefixed with "Sample" above in your coords document). But the other samples are totally novel.

I don't mind searching for new datasets. The more coordinates we have, the better.

Btw it seems like we don't have any Oraon/Kurukh and Malto samples yet. 

This study seem to be about them but I cannot find the genotype data: https://www.pivotscipub.com/hpgg/5/1/0003/html

https://figshare.com/articles/dataset/Br...n/28053170

Code:

File(s) under embargo
Reason: The Embargo will be lifted as soon as the manuscript will be published.

2
month(s)
13
day(s)
until file(s) become available

[Whyismylifesodull]

I don't mind searching for new datasets. The more coordinates we have, the better.

Btw it seems like we don't have any Oraon/Kurukh and Malto samples yet. 

This study seem to be about them but I cannot find the genotype data: https://www.pivotscipub.com/hpgg/5/1/0003/html

https://figshare.com/articles/dataset/Br...n/28053170

Code:

File(s) under embargo
Reason: The Embargo will be lifted as soon as the manuscript will be published.

2
month(s)
13
day(s)
until file(s) become available

Can you convert the Kurukh, Malto and any other genotype data into G25?

[teepean]

Btw it seems like we don't have any Oraon/Kurukh and Malto samples yet. 

This study seem to be about them but I cannot find the genotype data: https://www.pivotscipub.com/hpgg/5/1/0003/html

https://figshare.com/articles/dataset/Br...n/28053170

Code:

File(s) under embargo
Reason: The Embargo will be lifted as soon as the manuscript will be published.

2
month(s)
13
day(s)
until file(s) become available

Can you convert the Kurukh, Malto and any other genotype data into G25?

There is no data as it is still under embargo.

[Samuel7312]

Happy Valentine's Day, everyone! As promised, the 2025 update for the Moriopoulos Collection is here! Links below.

By popular demand, I have organized separate spreadsheets for ancient and modern coordinates. For the first time ever, sample sizes are also provided for the averages in all sheets! As usual, I also included "no sims" versions of the sheets for the purists out there that would prefer not to have any simulated coords in the mix. If you will recall I am not a huge fan of sims but there are a lot of un[der]represented groups in G25; these sims have served as a decent stopgap while we wait for real coords. Compared to the last version I dumped many sims that proved redundant for groups that had an adequate number of real coords. I also removed quite a few of the ethnically unidentified ambiguous samples from studies that didn't bother getting that info. IBD methods run on these specimens' raw data might help us actually identify precise ethnic ancestry in many of these individuals, but I don't have the skills to do that work myself. I have candidate individuals cordoned off in a file for future examination should someone with the know-how wish to tackle this problem.

The sims-inclusive version of the collection is built on a combined total of 40,285 individuals (13,533 ancients and 26,752 moderns). These group into 6,432 averages. This is a significant update from the ~5000 averages based on ~30,000 coords in the 2024 edition. Know that I can't post individual coords for the averages so please don't ask me; there are just too many private samples. Those looking for individual coordinates can always consult the official Eurogenes G25 page. Ajeje's excellent sheet is also a wonderful resource for ancient individuals since it has date and coverage info as well. The real strength of my own project is not just the exhaustiveness of the sampling but also the time-consuming curation I put into making heterogeneous population blocks more comprehensible. Academic studies do a poor job of sorting diverse cohorts into digestible clusters. I've endeavored to organize sets like this into profiles when applicable. The Imperial Rome, Vikings, and Avar studies with hundreds of heterogeneous individuals are good examples of why this is necessary. Nondescript "outlier" tags work just fine in many cases but profile descriptions are more informative in these more cosmopolitan contexts.

Anyway, I hope the project will prove useful for you when modelling or running distances. If you catch any errors, let me know and I'll make sure they're remedied in time for the 2026 version (which I hope reaches 50,000 individuals!). Enjoy!

----

MORIOPOULOS COLLECTION 2025
All Averages (With Sims)
All Averages (No Sims)

Ancients Only Averages (With Sims)
Ancients Only Averages (No Sims)

Moderns Only Averages (With Sims)
Moderns Only Averages (No Sims)

----

A few more comments and acknowledgements:

Many thanks to David W. (Eurogenes) himself and everyone else behind the scenes who helped make this popular collection of averages possible over the years. I have put a lot of hours into curating the project but I couldn't have done it without the diligent work of many other hobbyists in our community. Bravo! As some of you might have noticed, I have been active throughout the year in soliciting and seeking out as many useable coordinates as possible to better complete the collection. Consequently, the averages in the 2025 update are based on a huge sample size of over 40,000 individuals. Many groups or regions are still un[der]represented in the collection, but we inch closer and closer to a more perfect presentation every year. Maybe we'll get some real Arbereshe, Sarakatsani, Ainu, and Calabrian Griko samples eventually, eh? Some of these are represented with sims in the current version, but of course real coords are always preferable.

Many people who have obtained their coordinates privately this past year (via David himself or third parties like Illustrative DNA) have sent me their coordinates. Likewise, some folks involved in their own projects (e.g., the Iranian DNA Project, Pomak DNA Project, etc.) have also sent me material. Many thanks to them for their contributions as well. As always, in the interests of privacy, I can't or won't post many of the singleton-based averages that I have accumulated via these private correspondences, but anything that has been posted publicly is fair game. Many coordinates in past updates (and in this one) came from public posts on Reddit, Anthrogenica, and other fora.

I should make a brief comment on Illustrative DNA and the current state of G25. Because that company utilized real G25 coords for its models initially, the Illustrative DNA subreddit proved to be a great resource for me. I happily recommended people use their service to obtain G25 coords because Davidski's store was often closed. Now that Illustrative has moved on from G25, it's no longer of any use to my project and I obviously can no longer recommend its service. Fortunately, we were recently blessed with the happy news that that our own teepean47 (working with David) has taken up the mantle of providing G25 coords now via this website. As a matter of full disclosure, know that I am not being sponsored by any of the aforementioned parties. I've never been paid for any of the work I do and don't want to be. The Moriopoulos Collection is a labor of love and the project itself exists entirely for educational purposes. That said, I can't recommend Teepean's/Davidski's service enough. Real G25 coords have proven their value time and again. I just wish there was a good alternative to the convenient networking that the Illustrative subreddit provided me for outreach, but maybe that can be remedied somehow. The project marches on either way.

So I just went through this list and my jaw dropped you did an amazing job with this list i couldn't believe all the diasporan groups like reunion creole and  and African Americans and Puerto Ricans you even separated the Romani by location all these on G25 are so useful for me plus all the other additional samples for the general world on there is vast you did a great job compiling this.

[Kvasir1982]

MORIOPOULOS COLLECTION 2025
All Averages (With Sims)
All Averages (No Sims)

Ancients Only Averages (With Sims)
Ancients Only Averages (No Sims)

Moderns Only Averages (With Sims)
Moderns Only Averages (No Sims)

----


Hello, is it possible to have access to the full list of individuals without the averages? I would like to see the individual samples that were used to create the average result.

Thank u

[lifeinthewasteland]

I don't mind searching for new datasets. The more coordinates we have, the better.

Btw it seems like we don't have any Oraon/Kurukh and Malto samples yet. 

This study seem to be about them but I cannot find the genotype data: https://www.pivotscipub.com/hpgg/5/1/0003/html

https://figshare.com/articles/dataset/Br...n/28053170

Code:

File(s) under embargo
Reason: The Embargo will be lifted as soon as the manuscript will be published.

2
month(s)
13
day(s)
until file(s) become available

So around 2 months 13 days from now?

Btw I noticed many samples from this study have been missing in G25. Can you upload them? I posted on Davidski blog about this but he hasn't respond yet.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-40399-8

Here is the genotype data btw: https://evolbio.ut.ee/Tatte_2019/

Also a new genetic paper on Austroasiatic populations of Eastern India: the genotype data are available but they are restricted. Can you send an email to access the data there for upload to G25?

https://www.cell.com/heliyon/fulltext/S2...24)10385-4

https://zenodo.org/records/11071002

[ChrisR]

Hello, is it possible to have access to the full list of individuals without the averages? I would like to see the individual samples that were used to create the average result.

The answer is in the same first post you quoted:

... Know that I can't post individual coords for the averages so please don't ask me; there are just too many private samples. Those looking for individual coordinates can always consult the official Eurogenes G25 page. Ajeje's excellent sheet is also a wonderful resource for ancient individuals since it has date and coverage info as well. ...

[Kvasir1982]

Hello, is it possible to have access to the full list of individuals without the averages? I would like to see the individual samples that were used to create the average result.

The answer is in the same first post you quoted:

... Know that I can't post individual coords for the averages so please don't ask me; there are just too many private samples. Those looking for individual coordinates can always consult the official Eurogenes G25 page. Ajeje's excellent sheet is also a wonderful resource for ancient individuals since it has date and coverage info as well. ...

Yes, but so many modern samples are not available in any sheets

[Арсен]

Hi Michalis, what is this ancient sample, what is its ID and age? Maybe it's a mistake? I can't find it in either Davidsky's lists or William Anderson's lists (using the distance tool)
Moldova_Eneolithic_Zhyvotylivka_Bursuceni_o_(Transcaucasian_Profile)_(n=1)

[Michalis Moriakos]

Hello, is it possible to have access to the full list of individuals without the averages? I would like to see the individual samples that were used to create the average result.
Thank u

Can't do it; please re-read my original post where I said please don't ask. There are too many private samples and even just listing the IDs isn't on the table given that they often contain real names and other identifiable info I don't want floating around. The Collection isn't a scientific paper with open access; it's a hobbyist project where you just have to trust the curator (me) knows what he's doing. That's the way it's always going to be.

Yes, but so many modern samples are not available in any sheets

Yep, sorry, that's just the way it is. Who wouldn't love to have access to 23andme's entire database of genomes, too? It's a pipe dream, just like public access to all my G25 coords. Never going to happen. Privacy concerns preclude sharing them.

What would be cool would be if down the road David licensed Gedmatch to have a G25 feature built in to their Admixture function so that people could create G25 coords from kits as easily as they can make K13 coords now. We can dream.

Hi Michalis, what is this ancient sample, what is its ID and age? Maybe it's a mistake? I can't find it in either Davidsky's lists or William Anderson's lists (using the distance tool)
Moldova_Eneolithic_Zhyvotylivka_Bursuceni_o_(Transcaucasian_Profile)_(n=1)

The ID is I17973 (3354–3103 calBCE). From this paper: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11909631/

[AimSmall]

"What would be cool would be if down the road David licensed Gedmatch to have a G25 feature built in to their Admixture function so that people could create G25 coords from kits as easily as they can make K13 coords now. We can dream."

Epic idea.