02-14-2025, 05:47 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2025, 05:51 AM by Michalis Moriakos.)
Happy Valentine's Day, everyone! As promised, the 2025 update for the Moriopoulos Collection is here! Links below.
By popular demand, I have organized separate spreadsheets for ancient and modern coordinates. For the first time ever, sample sizes are also provided for the averages in all sheets! As usual, I also included "no sims" versions of the sheets for the purists out there that would prefer not to have any simulated coords in the mix. If you will recall I am not a huge fan of sims but there are a lot of un[der]represented groups in G25; these sims have served as a decent stopgap while we wait for real coords. Compared to the last version I dumped many sims that proved redundant for groups that had an adequate number of real coords. I also removed quite a few of the ethnically unidentified ambiguous samples from studies that didn't bother getting that info. IBD methods run on these specimens' raw data might help us actually identify precise ethnic ancestry in many of these individuals, but I don't have the skills to do that work myself. I have candidate individuals cordoned off in a file for future examination should someone with the know-how wish to tackle this problem.
The sims-inclusive version of the collection is built on a combined total of 40,285 individuals (13,533 ancients and 26,752 moderns). These group into 6,432 averages. This is a significant update from the ~5000 averages based on ~30,000 coords in the 2024 edition. Know that I can't post individual coords for the averages so please don't ask me; there are just too many private samples. Those looking for individual coordinates can always consult the official Eurogenes G25 page. Ajeje's excellent sheet is also a wonderful resource for ancient individuals since it has date and coverage info as well. The real strength of my own project is not just the exhaustiveness of the sampling but also the time-consuming curation I put into making heterogeneous population blocks more comprehensible. Academic studies do a poor job of sorting diverse cohorts into digestible clusters. I've endeavored to organize sets like this into profiles when applicable. The Imperial Rome, Vikings, and Avar studies with hundreds of heterogeneous individuals are good examples of why this is necessary. Nondescript "outlier" tags work just fine in many cases but profile descriptions are more informative in these more cosmopolitan contexts.
Anyway, I hope the project will prove useful for you when modelling or running distances. If you catch any errors, let me know and I'll make sure they're remedied in time for the 2026 version (which I hope reaches 50,000 individuals!). Enjoy!
----
MORIOPOULOS COLLECTION 2025
All Averages (With Sims)
All Averages (No Sims)
Ancients Only Averages (With Sims)
Ancients Only Averages (No Sims)
Moderns Only Averages (With Sims)
Moderns Only Averages (No Sims)
----
A few more comments and acknowledgements:
Many thanks to David W. (Eurogenes) himself and everyone else behind the scenes who helped make this popular collection of averages possible over the years. I have put a lot of hours into curating the project but I couldn't have done it without the diligent work of many other hobbyists in our community. Bravo! As some of you might have noticed, I have been active throughout the year in soliciting and seeking out as many useable coordinates as possible to better complete the collection. Consequently, the averages in the 2025 update are based on a huge sample size of over 40,000 individuals. Many groups or regions are still un[der]represented in the collection, but we inch closer and closer to a more perfect presentation every year. Maybe we'll get some real Arbereshe, Sarakatsani, Ainu, and Calabrian Griko samples eventually, eh? Some of these are represented with sims in the current version, but of course real coords are always preferable.
Many people who have obtained their coordinates privately this past year (via David himself or third parties like Illustrative DNA) have sent me their coordinates. Likewise, some folks involved in their own projects (e.g., the Iranian DNA Project, Pomak DNA Project, etc.) have also sent me material. Many thanks to them for their contributions as well. As always, in the interests of privacy, I can't or won't post many of the singleton-based averages that I have accumulated via these private correspondences, but anything that has been posted publicly is fair game. Many coordinates in past updates (and in this one) came from public posts on Reddit, Anthrogenica, and other fora.
I should make a brief comment on Illustrative DNA and the current state of G25. Because that company utilized real G25 coords for its models initially, the Illustrative DNA subreddit proved to be a great resource for me. I happily recommended people use their service to obtain G25 coords because Davidski's store was often closed. Now that Illustrative has moved on from G25, it's no longer of any use to my project and I obviously can no longer recommend its service. Fortunately, we were recently blessed with the happy news that that our own teepean47 (working with David) has taken up the mantle of providing G25 coords now via this website. As a matter of full disclosure, know that I am not being sponsored by any of the aforementioned parties. I've never been paid for any of the work I do and don't want to be. The Moriopoulos Collection is a labor of love and the project itself exists entirely for educational purposes. That said, I can't recommend Teepean's/Davidski's service enough. Real G25 coords have proven their value time and again. I just wish there was a good alternative to the convenient networking that the Illustrative subreddit provided me for outreach, but maybe that can be remedied somehow. The project marches on either way.
By popular demand, I have organized separate spreadsheets for ancient and modern coordinates. For the first time ever, sample sizes are also provided for the averages in all sheets! As usual, I also included "no sims" versions of the sheets for the purists out there that would prefer not to have any simulated coords in the mix. If you will recall I am not a huge fan of sims but there are a lot of un[der]represented groups in G25; these sims have served as a decent stopgap while we wait for real coords. Compared to the last version I dumped many sims that proved redundant for groups that had an adequate number of real coords. I also removed quite a few of the ethnically unidentified ambiguous samples from studies that didn't bother getting that info. IBD methods run on these specimens' raw data might help us actually identify precise ethnic ancestry in many of these individuals, but I don't have the skills to do that work myself. I have candidate individuals cordoned off in a file for future examination should someone with the know-how wish to tackle this problem.
The sims-inclusive version of the collection is built on a combined total of 40,285 individuals (13,533 ancients and 26,752 moderns). These group into 6,432 averages. This is a significant update from the ~5000 averages based on ~30,000 coords in the 2024 edition. Know that I can't post individual coords for the averages so please don't ask me; there are just too many private samples. Those looking for individual coordinates can always consult the official Eurogenes G25 page. Ajeje's excellent sheet is also a wonderful resource for ancient individuals since it has date and coverage info as well. The real strength of my own project is not just the exhaustiveness of the sampling but also the time-consuming curation I put into making heterogeneous population blocks more comprehensible. Academic studies do a poor job of sorting diverse cohorts into digestible clusters. I've endeavored to organize sets like this into profiles when applicable. The Imperial Rome, Vikings, and Avar studies with hundreds of heterogeneous individuals are good examples of why this is necessary. Nondescript "outlier" tags work just fine in many cases but profile descriptions are more informative in these more cosmopolitan contexts.
Anyway, I hope the project will prove useful for you when modelling or running distances. If you catch any errors, let me know and I'll make sure they're remedied in time for the 2026 version (which I hope reaches 50,000 individuals!). Enjoy!
----
MORIOPOULOS COLLECTION 2025
All Averages (With Sims)
All Averages (No Sims)
Ancients Only Averages (With Sims)
Ancients Only Averages (No Sims)
Moderns Only Averages (With Sims)
Moderns Only Averages (No Sims)
----
A few more comments and acknowledgements:
Many thanks to David W. (Eurogenes) himself and everyone else behind the scenes who helped make this popular collection of averages possible over the years. I have put a lot of hours into curating the project but I couldn't have done it without the diligent work of many other hobbyists in our community. Bravo! As some of you might have noticed, I have been active throughout the year in soliciting and seeking out as many useable coordinates as possible to better complete the collection. Consequently, the averages in the 2025 update are based on a huge sample size of over 40,000 individuals. Many groups or regions are still un[der]represented in the collection, but we inch closer and closer to a more perfect presentation every year. Maybe we'll get some real Arbereshe, Sarakatsani, Ainu, and Calabrian Griko samples eventually, eh? Some of these are represented with sims in the current version, but of course real coords are always preferable.
Many people who have obtained their coordinates privately this past year (via David himself or third parties like Illustrative DNA) have sent me their coordinates. Likewise, some folks involved in their own projects (e.g., the Iranian DNA Project, Pomak DNA Project, etc.) have also sent me material. Many thanks to them for their contributions as well. As always, in the interests of privacy, I can't or won't post many of the singleton-based averages that I have accumulated via these private correspondences, but anything that has been posted publicly is fair game. Many coordinates in past updates (and in this one) came from public posts on Reddit, Anthrogenica, and other fora.
I should make a brief comment on Illustrative DNA and the current state of G25. Because that company utilized real G25 coords for its models initially, the Illustrative DNA subreddit proved to be a great resource for me. I happily recommended people use their service to obtain G25 coords because Davidski's store was often closed. Now that Illustrative has moved on from G25, it's no longer of any use to my project and I obviously can no longer recommend its service. Fortunately, we were recently blessed with the happy news that that our own teepean47 (working with David) has taken up the mantle of providing G25 coords now via this website. As a matter of full disclosure, know that I am not being sponsored by any of the aforementioned parties. I've never been paid for any of the work I do and don't want to be. The Moriopoulos Collection is a labor of love and the project itself exists entirely for educational purposes. That said, I can't recommend Teepean's/Davidski's service enough. Real G25 coords have proven their value time and again. I just wish there was a good alternative to the convenient networking that the Illustrative subreddit provided me for outreach, but maybe that can be remedied somehow. The project marches on either way.
