J2b M241 (Z2432) Indo Iranians

[Polska]

It appears they’ve discovered several high status graves from the Achaemenid Seleucid Empire belonging to haplogroup J2b Z2432.  These individuals belonged to the Medes people, who were an Indo Iranian group associated with Northwestern Indo Iranian. Link to the study (preprint) here:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/...3.636298v1

J2b Z2432, along with J2b L283, split from its parent branch, J2b M241, around 10,000 years ago.  Thus, the J2b M241 branch links, at least very distantly, Late PIE speakers in the west via J2b L283 (Albanian, Greek, Armenian) with Indo Iranian and potentially Indo Aryan speakers in the east via the J2b Z2432 branch.  I would assume the distant split between these lines took place in either Transcaucasia, the South Caspian area of Northern Iran, or even Turkmenistan.

The Medes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes

J2b M241:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M241/


The site in question is called Marsin Chal and is on the south side of the Alborz Mountains.


   

   

   

   

[targaryen]

I wish we had more links with J2B/2 in the eastern routes, but it's lacking so far. It's mostly linked to Illyrians/Albanians and some Myceneans potentially in the western route.

I'm not sure if these are non-IE CHG-related or IE CHG-related, but it's interesting nonetheless.

[Joey37]

It is said the Medes are part of the ancestry of the modern Kurds; do they have an elevated J2b level?

[Polska]

Here’s a good visual representation of J2b M241.  All of the Europeans are under J2b L283 and are Yamnaya derived via the CLV Cline.

Harvard claims that J2b M241 has been in Europe since the Neolithic, which is pure horseshit.

Those from India and Southern Asia and Iran are under the J2b Z2432 branch.  So the area around the South Caucasus and the Caspian Sea (CHG ancestry?) is probably the midpoint where these two lines bifurcated and went in different directions.

Heatmap by Provyn, Krahn (HRAS):

   

   

[Polska]

It is said the Medes are part of the ancestry of the modern Kurds; do they have an elevated J2b level?

I need to double check this.  I don’t think they have elevated J2b ancestry, but I seem to recall some Kurds belonging to the J2b Z2432 branch.

[Sephesakueu]

South caucasus mesolithic Z533 to M421 >> Iranian farmer >> Indus valley and BMAC possibly spread with Elamo-Dravidian languages.

[Archetype0ne]

So would this mean that these J2b-M421-Z2432 got in the Indian subcontinents with the Indo-Aryan movements?

[Sephesakueu]

So would this mean that these J2b-M421-Z2432 got in the Indian subcontinents with the Indo-Aryan movements?

ID: I11480 
Date : 2900-2800 BCE Y-Dna : J2b2a2-Z2444 SNPs Y33893+ 
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2432/
mtDNA : W6
Archaeological Context : Indus_Periphery, 424, IRR Grave 22e (Central-E), Period I/II, phases 8-7
Autossomal Profile : 70% Iran neolithic + 30% AASI
Site : Shahr-e Sūkhté
Source : NarasimhanPattersonScience2019.

Also the most south asian subclade of J-Z2432 (J-Z2449) has a TMRCA that lived around the year 5500 BC , that is more than 3500 years before indo aryan showed up in the region.

[RCO]

So would this mean that these J2b-M421-Z2432 got in the Indian subcontinents with the Indo-Aryan movements?

Yes, it's possible

  not all Indo-European goes back to the Steppe. Now  freed from the Steppe hypothesis as the base presumption (or aspiration) for interpreting aDNA data, we can look  forward to a neutral re-evaluation of the most plausible candidates for tracing multiple other branches of the Indo-European family out of the original Caucasus/Zagros homeland, without all having to travel via the Steppe. Alongside  Anatolian, these may include notably Greek, Armenian, Albanian and Indo-Iranic.

Paul Heggarty, 2025, Beating the retreat from the Steppe hypothesis

[targaryen]

So would this mean that these J2b-M421-Z2432 got in the Indian subcontinents with the Indo-Aryan movements?

Yes, it's possible

  not all Indo-European goes back to the Steppe. Now  freed from the Steppe hypothesis as the base presumption (or aspiration) for interpreting aDNA data, we can look  forward to a neutral re-evaluation of the most plausible candidates for tracing multiple other branches of the Indo-European family out of the original Caucasus/Zagros homeland, without all having to travel via the Steppe. Alongside  Anatolian, these may include notably Greek, Armenian, Albanian and Indo-Iranic.

Paul Heggarty, 2025, Beating the retreat from the Steppe hypothesis

The amount of stupidity in academia is astonishing. All of these are clearly accompanied by BA steppe ancestry (especially the northern Balkans which had up to 70-80% steppe early on)

I don't like to tarnish academics but this guy is a two-bit hack.

[Vognejar]

Could it be the Hurrians-Urartians who were Indo-Europeanized (like those in the Armenian Highlands)? After all, it seems that the Caucasus was the starting point? The Medes come from the Srubna culture, from the territory of Ukraine. They probably brought the Iranian language to the Kurds.

[Amber29]

Can someone tell me anything about this subclade?

J-Y137989 and/or J-FTC40038