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After just joining our latest home, I'd like to have the honour of starting the third incarnation of this thread, which I began back in the day on Anthrogenica. So many people have contributed valuable thoughts and insights to our discussion over the years and I've really enjoyed the conversation. Please feel free to post anything that's related to ancient I1 or concerns it in any way; I'm sure our ancestors will forgive a few interesting forays off the direct topic every now and then. As always, fingers crossed for more insights into the origins and spread of I-M253 as we start the next stage of our journey.
Posts: 493
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Y-DNA (P): I-FT80630
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09-30-2023, 06:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2023, 06:56 PM by JMcB.)
Unfortunately, it looks like we’re going to lose all of the posts we put up on the original GenArchivist. So I thought I’d repost some of the information on the Allentoft samples. Now that Family Tree is analyzing and posting them on their Time Tree. While also adding some new information on another paper below
NE0875: Denmark, 2036 BC
Toftum Mose, NEO870+872+875+876; Søvind 16.05.08-17, East Jutland. Wetland with bog skeletons
Anders Fischer and Anne Birgitte Gotfredsen
The stores of the Anthropological Laboratory hold skeletal remains of several humans from Toftum Bog, which is a roundish peat filled basin not much more than 100 m in diameter. It is located right at the foot of a hill archaeologically known from a Funnel Beaker Culture causewayed enclosure dating to the transition from the Early to the Middle Neolithic. Our study has produced well-preserved DNA from four of the skeletons. Based on radiocarbon dates two of them can be referred to the close of the Single Grave Culture, while the other two belong to the Late Neolithic. Recordings of finds of skeletal remains from the wetland site date back to 1873. They also inform on the observation of a boat and numerous animal bones, representing wild as well as domesticated species. In addition, the archival materials tell of the finds of two tongued wedges – a type associated with the Single Grave Culture in Denmark and Corded Ware groups in Central and Eastern Europe. A pollen sample from an Aurochs skull is dated to Zone VIII. Its high frequency of Fraxinus in combination with presence of Plantago lanceolata indicates it is coeval with or later than the arrival of the Single Grave Culture (J. Troels-Smith letter of 1961).
Literature: Degerbøl & Fredskild 1970, pp. 20, 60, 19997; Madsen 197898; 202099.
Supplemental 2 page 74
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NE0220: Sweden, 2036 BC
NE0223: Sweden, 2018 BC
NEO227: Sweden, 1974 BC
NE0228: Sweden, 1891 BC
Fredriksberg, Falköping stad 5, Västergötland, Sweden. Gallery grave.
Malou Blank
The gallery grave at Fredriksberg in Falbygden, western Sweden, was excavated and restored by Västergötlands museum in 1973. The slightly trapezoid chamber measured 5.3×2 m and was oriented NNE-SSW. It was constructed of limestone slabs and consisted of a chamber and an ante-chamber covered by a collapsed roof. During the excavation a pottery sherd, a flint dagger (Lomborg type IIB), flint flakes, amber pendants, a slate whetter, a bone bead, bone needles, a bone awl, a bone cylinder, a few animal bones and commingled human remains were recovered. The number of buried individuals are estimated to be at least 28 to 30, both males and females, adults and children. Dating of the skeletons range from c. 2200 to 1650 BC, corresponding to the Late Neolithic and the beginning of the Early Bronze Age period I in the Scandinavian chronology. In addition to the aDNA data presented in this study, other scientific analyses were conducted, including Sr isotopes and stable isotopes. Most of the sampled individuals (12/21) exhibit childhood Sr isotope ratios which can be expected outside the local area of Falbygden. The stable isotopes indicate a terrestrial diet with a rather high intake of plant foods.
16 samples were analysed from this site, eight of which yielded usable DNA, presented in Table S7.3.
Sample Context Material Description Sex Ageclass Age id
NEO220 - F115II:2 — tooth — PM1 dxt. — M — juv/adult - 15-20
NEO223 - F98III:2 — tooth — dpm1 dxt — — inf I — 3
NEO227 - F122 — tooth — canine sin - M? — mat — 40-50
NEO228 - F108IV:3 - tooth — PM1 dxt — M? — mat — 45 - 55
Table S7.3. Details of samples from Fredriksberg in the present study.
Literature: Weiler 1977242; Blank et al. 2018243, 2020244.
Supplemental 2, pages 150 &151
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NE0261: Sweden, 1945 BC
Sillvik, Torslanda 43, Bohuslän, Sweden. Flat grave.
Karl-Göran Sjögren
Remains of three individuals were found in 1929 during gravel digging in a late glacial shell bank. Further bones were reported, but have not been recovered. Finds of two flint daggers close by indicate a late Neolithic date. Individual A is a male >40 years old, individual B is a probable male, 20-30 years old, and individual C is a juvenile. Individual B was 14C-dated to the Late Neolithic. Despite the coastal location, his δ13C value indicates only marginal intake of marine protein.
The sample, NEO261, is a lower left PM from individual B.
Literature: Niklasson 1956260; Sjögren et al. 2009241.
Supplemental 2, pages 154 & 155
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NE093: Denmark, 1788 BC
Strøby Ladeplads, NEO93; Strøby 050612-31, Zealand. Stone cist
Kristoffer B. Pedersen
Originally in a large mound measuring at least 25 metres in diameter and 2.5 metres in height, a stone cist was excavated. It is one of several mounds situated close to the present- day and contemporaneous coast. A small excavation in the cist was conducted by professional archaeologists in 1969 to document the circumstances of a previous private excavation.
From the cist, skeletal parts of at least 7 adults were salvaged. At least one of these was a man. Additionally, there were tibiae from a newborn child. Only one of the individuals produced DNA of acceptable quality. An AMS date of the tooth in question says 3512±33 14C years BP (UB-37879), which implies Late Neolithic according to traditional South Scandinavian terminology.
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NE0857: Denmark, 1718 BC
Lollikhuse, NEO857; Selsø 01.02.06-77, Zealand. Kitchen midden with stray human remains
Søren Anker Sørensen
Coastal kitchen midden, the accumulation of which took place mostly during the Late Mesolithic Ertebølle Culture. The archaeological excavation of shell deposits at the site produced a few finds of settlement material from the Funnel Beaker Culture as well. A stray human tooth from the shell deposits has provided well-preserved DNA (NEO857) and is AMS dated to c. 3400 14C years BP (Late Neolithic according to traditional Danish archaeological terminology). It may come from a destroyed burial of that period, as are known from other Danish kitchen middens.
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NE0815: Denmark, 1524 BC
Vasagård, NEO815; Åker 06.02.05-58, Bornholm. Passage grave
Poul Otto Nielsen
Passage grave in a long barrow, whose grave chamber was excavated in 1938, resulting in finds from both the Middle Neolithic and Bronze Age (the National Museum of Denmark inv. no. A38837-40, B13208-10). The passage to the chamber (Figure S6.18) was excavated in 2008 in connection with restoration (National Museum file no. 8333/03-35). In the passage well-preserved bones of an unusually tall (male?) person were found. According to the AMS date: 3248±32 14C years BP (UB-38239), the individual belongs to the South Scandinavian Early Bronze Age, whereby the passage to the chamber had been modified and re-used as a grave cist.
Literature: Ebbesen 1985, p. 207104; Hansen 2014, pp. 48-56105.
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NE0563: Denmark, 1405 BC
Bybjerg, NEO563; Orø 03.07.09-34, off Zealand. Stone Age kitchen midden with Bronze Age burials
Anders Fischer
The Bybjerg coastal kitchen midden was recorded while its sediments were queried for field improvement and road fill. It consisted of oyster and snail shells in between which numerous worked flints of Mesolithic character and some stone-set fireplaces were observed. In reports of 1911 to the Danish National Museum the local vicar mentioned two human skeletons interred at the site. The one sampled by the present project, was found below the shell layer, and was framed with a rectangular setting of stones of a size a man could lift. The body had been placed on its back in a stretched out position with the head in WSW. An AMS date relates this skeleton to the Early Bronze Age (3210±32 14C years BP, UB-38226). The same general date probably applies to the other burial since its bones were stained by verdigris.
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NE0590: Denmark, 1347 BC
Magleø, NEO590; off Korsør 401433-6, Zealand. Stray Bronze Age skeleton on Mesolithic habitation site
Anders Fischer
Human skeletal remains were found about 1 m below average daily sea-level, in the sea-bed of the inlet of Korsør. Traces of Mesolithic habitation had since long been recorded from the locality, and it was assumed the skeleton represented a burial of coeval age. A radiocarbon measurement, however, dates it to the Early Bronze Age: 3114±30 14C years BP (UB- 38231).
Literature: Pedersen 199770.
————————————————————————————————————-
NEO220,0.126344,0.140143,0.075047,0.056848,0.0437,0.018965,0.00376,0.013846,0.016771,-0.007472,-0.002923,-0.008992,-0.008325,-0.005367,0.024022,0.00305,-0.003651,-0.003421,0.010936,0.012381,0.009982,0.009521,0.000246,0.018316,-0.005389
NEO227,0.141141,0.123895,0.085984,0.069122,0.047086,0.01004,0.016216,0.009923,0.016975,-0.009294,0.007307,0.002698,-0.012487,-0.004954,0.010722,0.02612,0.012647,0.011149,0.011564,0.01113,0.009483,0.003462,-0.002095,0.018316,-0.007424
NEO228,0.122929,0.135065,0.082967,0.057171,0.049855,0.021196,0.008695,0.012923,0.005727,-0.007836,-0.001949,0.001199,-0.017988,-0.006331,0.027008,0.008221,-0.012647,0.010515,0.005908,0.004627,0.016346,-0.000124,-0.002711,0.014942,0.001676
NEO563,0.121791,0.125926,0.066373,0.062339,0.044931,0.024821,0.014336,0.013846,0.002045,-0.001276,-0.006658,0.001798,-0.008325,-0.013349,0.008822,0.015646,0.007953,0.002027,0.004525,0.006503,0.015473,0.001855,-0.001602,-0.002771,0.001317
NEO590,0.12862,0.132019,0.067505,0.05814,0.038776,0.021196,-0.001175,0.001385,0.007567,0.000911,-0.008282,0.004646,-0.011298,-0.012661,0.017101,0.010209,0.013038,0.002914,0.008925,0.018509,0.013227,0.005441,-0.003204,0.011206,-0.003353
————————————————————————————————————————————-
Just so you know, all of the I1 samples from the Allentoft paper - that are currently available - are already up on Family Tree’s Time Tree:
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-M253/tree
&
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-Z141/tree
I was also able to find the two Z140 samples in the paper: Elevated genetic risk for multiple sclerosis originated in Steppe Pastoralist populations. So I thought I’d post some information on their context.
CGG100679 (1300-1350) I-Y5497
CGG100687 (1000-1300) I-A2398
Tjærby, Gimming Parish, Randers, Jutland. KHM 0899. 14.09.04-20, GPS coordinates: 567982, 6259161.
Marie Louise Jørkov, Lutz Klassen, Inger Marie Hyldgård
Rural cemetery ca. 5 km east of Randers on the north side of Randers fjord. It was excavated by Kulturhistorisk Museum Randers in 1998 to 2010. The excavation area revealed a stone church, and a cemetery containing ca. 1200 graves from which 351 individuals were sampled for DNA analysis in this project. The cemetery dates to ca. 1050 to late 1536, but skeletal remains were only preserved from graves dating after 1200. Remnants of a farmhouse and a wooden church predating the cemetery ( 900-1100) were also recovered1,2. The surrounding area consisted of forest and meadows.
The cemetry area measured ca. 45x42 meters (1900m2) and has been fully excavated. In nearly half of the graves, no skeletons were preserved. The remaining burials (673 in total) contained skeletons of varying degree of preservation from few poorly preserved fragments to well preserved and nearly complete skeletons due to the varying soil conditions in the area. The best preserved skeletons were found south of the church. Evidence of wooden coffins were found in some of the graves, but the majority of the individuals had been buried without. 57% of the graves with preserved bones contained adults (male and female), 10% subadults and 33% children.
The graves were dated based on the arm position of the skeletons3 as well as from C-14 dating on selected individuals and from few archaeological finds such as coins and ceramics. More than half of the skeletons were found with arm position A (arms and hands down the side) representing period AD 1200-1300. One third had arm position B (arms along the side but hands on thigh or hips), which starts to appear in the 13th century, dominates in the 14th century and disappears around AD 1400. The remaining skeletons were buried with arm position C (elbows bended and lower arms on stomach) or D (arms bended and hands crossed over chest) representing the latest period AD 1400-1536. The majority of the graves were found south of the church. There was a significant decrease in burials during the period of use in particular in the latest period.
Excavation of Tjærby cemetery. Photo: Museum Østjylland.
References
1. Hyldgård I.M. 2012. Tjærby Ødekirke og Kirkegård. Årbog, Museum Østjylland, Randers Djursland, pp. 63-73.
2. Hyldgård I.M. 2016. Tjærby Ødekirke og Kirkegård. Museum Østjyllands Publikationer vol. 3. Århus Universitetsforlag.
3. Kieffer-Olsen J. 1993. Grav og gravskik i det middelalderlige Danmark. Århus: Department of Medieval Archaeology.
Paper Trail: 42% English, 31.5% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
LDNA©: Britain & Ireland: 89.3% (51.5% English, 37.8% Scottish & Irish), N.W. Germanic: 7.8%, Europe South: 2.9% (Southern Italy & Sicily)
BigY 700: I1-Z141 >F2642 >Y3649 >Y7198 (c.349 AD) >Y168300 (c.385 AD) >A13248 (c.868 AD) >A13252 (c.1047 AD) >FT81015 (c.1277 AD) >A13243 (c.1620 AD) >FT80854 (c.1700 AD) >FT80630 (1893 AD).
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Thank you JonikW for starting the thread again. Third time's the charm! And thank you JMcB for picking up where we left off on the previous site in such an elaborate manner.
Now that LNBA Denmark and Southern Sweden are decently sampled and we are starting to gain an understanding of the early diversification and subsequent expansion of I1, it would be incredibly interesting to see what was going on in Norway during the same time periods. The current dearth of Norwegian samples makes me very curious about this.
Will LN Norway be rich in R1b-L51 lineages, with I1 not entering the picture until the Nordic Bronze Age? Or will we see the same kind of Nordic LN groups with plenty of I1 and R1b that we see in more southern parts of Scandinavia? At least around the Oslofjord? Or perhaps, will we older Battle Axe lineages persisting to a higher degree? I'd love to find out. Several years ago on Anthrogenica, Naudigastir/Bygdedweller mentioned a very interesting upcoming project focusing on Norway, with plenty of ancient DNA. Hopefully, we'll get to see that published in the not so distant future.
It's interesting that L22 is thus far absent among the samples from Late Neolithic and Bronze Age Southern Scandinavia. That might strengthen the hypothesis that groups rich in L22 were located further north during the BA, although we'd likely need more samples to know with certainty.
In any case, the fact that the data from Allentoft et al. 2022 is now public strongly suggests that the study will be published soon. A while back when I asked Allentoft he said it would "hopefully" happen this year, so I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.
I see that this thread has landed under the "I" section. However, it is not under the I1-M253 sub-section. Would it be possible to get a moderator to move it, so that it ends up under I1-M253?
23andMe
Scandinavian 95.8%
Finnish 4.2%
Posts: 94
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Y-DNA (P): I1-Z140-A1890
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10-02-2023, 01:02 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2023, 01:53 PM by Kaltmeister.)
I will also transfer my latest post into this thread, as its intention was to collect and present the most important data from the Allentoft study for our purposes: The oldest fully developed I1 samples and the proto-Germanic cluster as beeing the habitat, where the expansion of old M253-clades mainly occured.
---
All I1 results from the Allentoft study, sorted by age - and some additional results from other studies. Not all of them have been examined so far:
And here are all results from the Protogermanic cluster Scandinavia_4000BP_3000BP. From 4.040 BP (new average date for Falköping NEO220) to 3.145 BP - about 900 years - all samples are I1 or female. Just then the first R1b-U106 (NEO946) turns up at Hove A, Seeland, Denmark. NEO221 (R1a/3.700 y BP), although found in the Falköping tomb, was not assigned to any cluster. Future finds will have to tell us, when R1b became part of this group.
Here are the samples not being assigned to any cluster, probably due to low coverage - including the aforementioned Falköping R1a and three I1:
Surprisingly there are two I1 inside the Bell Beaker cluster (Europe_4500BP_2000BP) - one of them is NEO875, the second oldest I1-sample from Toftum Mose, East-Jütland, Denmark (3.986 y BP), the other one is BES1248 from La Monédière, France.
The examination of the haplotree suggests a population explosion with the rapid generation of ever new lines more than 4.000 years ago in Sweden and Denmark - the time and place of the Battle Axe (Scandinavia_4600BP_3800BP) and Single Grave (Scandinavia_4200BP_3200BP) cultures, derivates of the adjacent Corded Ware culture (EuropeNE_4800BP_3000BP). However, no I1 from these cultures has been found so far:
Finally, here is the graphical presentation of the autosomal relation between the different clusters mentioned above, taken from the study preprint:
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10-02-2023, 03:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2023, 03:50 PM by Kaltmeister.)
Pribislav on...
NEO590, Magleø:
1425-1269 BC; Denmark_BA; I1a2a1-Z58>Z59>CTS8647>Z61>Z60>Z140>Z141>A196 (xFGC19081,A1395,Y6900,FT162874)
Z61 level: Z61/S439+ G>T (1T)
Z140 level: Z140/S440+ G>A (1A)
A196 level: A196/Y5497+ T>C (2C)
on NEO220, Falköping 5:
2140-1932 BC; Sweden_BA; I1a-DF29>Z2893>Y18697 (xY10633,Y7282,A17212,S9297)
and on NEO563, Bybjerg:
1500-1310 BC; Denmark_BA; I1a2-Z58>Z59
So if I observe correctly, we are still missing: NEO875 (Toftum Mose), NEO223, NEO227 and NEO228 (Falköping 5), NEO261 (Sillvik), NEO93 (Strøby Ladeplads), NEO857 (Lollikehuse) and NEO815 (Vasagard).
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10-02-2023, 04:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2023, 04:33 PM by JMcB.)
(10-02-2023, 03:35 PM)Kaltmeister Wrote: Pribislav on...
NEO590, Magleø:
1425-1269 BC; Denmark_BA; I1a2a1-Z58>Z59>CTS8647>Z61>Z60>Z140>Z141>A196 (xFGC19081,A1395,Y6900,FT162874)
Z61 level: Z61/S439+ G>T (1T)
Z140 level: Z140/S440+ G>A (1A)
A196 level: A196/Y5497+ T>C (2C)
on NEO220, Falköping 5:
2140-1932 BC; Sweden_BA; I1a-DF29>Z2893>Y18697 (xY10633,Y7282,A17212,S9297)
and on NEO563, Bybjerg:
1500-1310 BC; Denmark_BA; I1a2-Z58>Z59
So if I observe correctly, we are still missing: NEO875 (Toftum Mose), NEO223, NEO227 and NEO228 (Falköping 5), NEO261 (Sillvik), NEO93 (Strøby Ladeplads), NEO857 (Lollikehuse) and NEO815 (Vasagard).
The list that I have for the missing samples is:
NEO093
NEO261
NEO815
NEO857 **
NE0875
These were not originally uploaded to the ENA. NEO857 has now been uploaded but I can’t speak for the others because I haven’t checked in the last few days. Family Tree is aware about the staggered uploading and is analyzing whatever comes in. So, hopefully, we should see more at the end of the week.
NEO223, NEO227 and NEO228 are already up on the Time Tree. Along with NEO563 Bybjerg NEO590 Magleø and NEO220 Falköping.
Paper Trail: 42% English, 31.5% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
LDNA©: Britain & Ireland: 89.3% (51.5% English, 37.8% Scottish & Irish), N.W. Germanic: 7.8%, Europe South: 2.9% (Southern Italy & Sicily)
BigY 700: I1-Z141 >F2642 >Y3649 >Y7198 (c.349 AD) >Y168300 (c.385 AD) >A13248 (c.868 AD) >A13252 (c.1047 AD) >FT81015 (c.1277 AD) >A13243 (c.1620 AD) >FT80854 (c.1700 AD) >FT80630 (1893 AD).
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10-02-2023, 08:37 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2023, 08:38 PM by Kaltmeister.)
(10-02-2023, 04:26 PM)JMcB Wrote: NEO223, NEO227 and NEO228 are already up on the Time Tree. Along with NEO563 Bybjerg NEO590 Magleø and NEO220 Falköping.
Yes, on my FTDNA account they are assigned to M253 (NEO227 and NEO228) and DF29 (NEO220 and NEO223). I made a WGS at Dante and never booked the BigY at FTDNA. So I have limited access to the Time Tree/Ancient Connections area. Do you get a more precise result than M253 or DF29? Pribislav assigned NEO220 to Z2893-Y18697 - and this location off the main line makes quite a difference in my opinion. However, coverage for 223, 227 and 228 is poor, and they will probably not deliver any downstream results.
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10-03-2023, 12:16 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2023, 02:45 AM by JMcB.)
(10-02-2023, 08:37 PM)Kaltmeister Wrote: (10-02-2023, 04:26 PM)JMcB Wrote: NEO223, NEO227 and NEO228 are already up on the Time Tree. Along with NEO563 Bybjerg NEO590 Magleø and NEO220 Falköping.
Yes, on my FTDNA account they are assigned to M253 (NEO227 and NEO228) and DF29 (NEO220 and NEO223). I made a WGS at Dante and never booked the BigY at FTDNA. So I have limited access to the Time Tree/Ancient Connections area. Do you get a more precise result than M253 or DF29? Pribislav assigned NEO220 to Z2893-Y18697 - and this location off the main line makes quite a difference in my opinion. However, coverage for 223, 227 and 228 is poor, and they will probably not deliver any downstream results.
I’ll ask Goran tomorrow what he thinks about calling NEO220 as: Y18796. Did Pribislav call any of the others more precisely? I may have missed what he was doing, while going back and forth between two different GenArchivist sites.
Paper Trail: 42% English, 31.5% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
LDNA©: Britain & Ireland: 89.3% (51.5% English, 37.8% Scottish & Irish), N.W. Germanic: 7.8%, Europe South: 2.9% (Southern Italy & Sicily)
BigY 700: I1-Z141 >F2642 >Y3649 >Y7198 (c.349 AD) >Y168300 (c.385 AD) >A13248 (c.868 AD) >A13252 (c.1047 AD) >FT81015 (c.1277 AD) >A13243 (c.1620 AD) >FT80854 (c.1700 AD) >FT80630 (1893 AD).
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(10-03-2023, 12:16 AM)JMcB Wrote: (10-02-2023, 08:37 PM)Kaltmeister Wrote: (10-02-2023, 04:26 PM)JMcB Wrote: NEO223, NEO227 and NEO228 are already up on the Time Tree. Along with NEO563 Bybjerg NEO590 Magleø and NEO220 Falköping.
Yes, on my FTDNA account they are assigned to M253 (NEO227 and NEO228) and DF29 (NEO220 and NEO223). I made a WGS at Dante and never booked the BigY at FTDNA. So I have limited access to the Time Tree/Ancient Connections area. Do you get a more precise result than M253 or DF29? Pribislav assigned NEO220 to Z2893-Y18697 - and this location off the main line makes quite a difference in my opinion. However, coverage for 223, 227 and 228 is poor, and they will probably not deliver any downstream results.
I’ll ask Goran tomorrow what he thinks about calling NEO220 as: Y18796. Did Pribislav call any of the others more precisely? I may have missed what he was doing, while going back and forth between two different GenArchivist sites.
I spoke to Goran and he doesn’t think NEO220 is Y18796. However, he also said he would show it to Sagar to see what he thinks. So that’s where we stand at this point.
Paper Trail: 42% English, 31.5% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
LDNA©: Britain & Ireland: 89.3% (51.5% English, 37.8% Scottish & Irish), N.W. Germanic: 7.8%, Europe South: 2.9% (Southern Italy & Sicily)
BigY 700: I1-Z141 >F2642 >Y3649 >Y7198 (c.349 AD) >Y168300 (c.385 AD) >A13248 (c.868 AD) >A13252 (c.1047 AD) >FT81015 (c.1277 AD) >A13243 (c.1620 AD) >FT80854 (c.1700 AD) >FT80630 (1893 AD).
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Y-DNA (P): I-FT80630
mtDNA (M): H1e2
10-03-2023, 06:16 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2023, 06:18 PM by JMcB.)
With the exception of few added details, there’s nothing new here but I found it interesting that Family Tree decided to post a thread dedicated to the paper.
Göran Runström
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Top contributor
Dedicated thread: Population Genomics of Stone Age Eurasia
Many users are contacting us or commenting in various threads in this group about the new large study by Allentoft et al. 2023, which is still in the preprint state.
Here, we present the largest shotgun-sequenced genomic dataset from the Stone Age to date, representing 317 primarily Mesolithic and Neolithic individuals from across Eurasia, with associated radiocarbon dates, stable isotope data, and pollen records
The data for the first 211 samples (out of 317) were recently made available and FamilyTreeDNA downloaded the data and compared them to the haplotree and Big Y database.
Of the first 211 samples, 135 (64%) were identified as genetic males. 15 did not have good enough quality or coverage to be included. The remaining 120 samples with good Y-DNA haplogroup results were published on the Discover Y-DNA reports on Friday, so you can sign in and check your Big Y haplogroup report to see if you have any new Ancient Connections from "Allentoft et al. 2023" (see screenshot for an example)
61 more were made available end of last week, out of which 30 are genetic males. These results will be analyzed next. And hopefully, the data for the remaining 45 samples will be available soon.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/...4.490594v5
Paper Trail: 42% English, 31.5% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
LDNA©: Britain & Ireland: 89.3% (51.5% English, 37.8% Scottish & Irish), N.W. Germanic: 7.8%, Europe South: 2.9% (Southern Italy & Sicily)
BigY 700: I1-Z141 >F2642 >Y3649 >Y7198 (c.349 AD) >Y168300 (c.385 AD) >A13248 (c.868 AD) >A13252 (c.1047 AD) >FT81015 (c.1277 AD) >A13243 (c.1620 AD) >FT80854 (c.1700 AD) >FT80630 (1893 AD).
Posts: 493
Threads: 25
Joined: Sep 2023
Gender: Male
Ethnicity: English, Scottish & Irish
Nationality: American
Y-DNA (P): I-FT80630
mtDNA (M): H1e2
10-06-2023, 04:13 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2023, 04:18 PM by JMcB.)
I just got this message from Göran Runström:
“27 additional aDNA samples from Allentoft 2023 were uploaded just now. The new samples make it so that 9 out of 10 of the oldest I-M253 samples to date are from Allentoft's 2015 and 2023 studies”.
See: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-M253/tree
They have also reconsidered NEO220’s call. He is now being placed under I-Y18697.
See: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-Y18697/tree
Paper Trail: 42% English, 31.5% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
LDNA©: Britain & Ireland: 89.3% (51.5% English, 37.8% Scottish & Irish), N.W. Germanic: 7.8%, Europe South: 2.9% (Southern Italy & Sicily)
BigY 700: I1-Z141 >F2642 >Y3649 >Y7198 (c.349 AD) >Y168300 (c.385 AD) >A13248 (c.868 AD) >A13252 (c.1047 AD) >FT81015 (c.1277 AD) >A13243 (c.1620 AD) >FT80854 (c.1700 AD) >FT80630 (1893 AD).
Posts: 136
Threads: 2
Joined: Sep 2023
Gender: Male
Y-DNA (P): I1-L22
Y-DNA (M): R1a-CTS8277
mtDNA (M): H3
mtDNA (P): K1b2a
(10-06-2023, 04:13 PM)JMcB Wrote: I just got this message from Göran Runström:
“27 additional aDNA samples from Allentoft 2023 were uploaded just now. The new samples make it so that 9 out of 10 of the oldest I-M253 samples to date are from Allentoft's 2015 and 2023 studies”.
See: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-M253/tree
They have also reconsidered NEO220’s call. He is now being placed under I-Y18697.
See: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-Y18697/tree
Thank you for keeping us updated, JMcB! It's very interesting to see that NEO875 does not appear to be DF29+.
23andMe
Scandinavian 95.8%
Finnish 4.2%
Posts: 1,046
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Gender: Male
Ethnicity: Friso-Saxon touch of Jewish
Nationality: NL
Y-DNA (P): E-V22-E-L1401
Y-DNA (M): R1b-U106-DF96
mtDNA (M): H10e
10-07-2023, 01:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2023, 01:11 PM by Rodoorn.)
(10-02-2023, 03:35 PM)Kaltmeister Wrote: Pribislav on...
NEO590, Magleø:
1425-1269 BC; Denmark_BA; I1a2a1-Z58>Z59>CTS8647>Z61>Z60>Z140>Z141>A196 (xFGC19081,A1395,Y6900,FT162874)
Z61 level: Z61/S439+ G>T (1T)
Z140 level: Z140/S440+ G>A (1A)
A196 level: A196/Y5497+ T>C (2C)
on NEO220, Falköping 5:
2140-1932 BC; Sweden_BA; I1a-DF29>Z2893>Y18697 (xY10633,Y7282,A17212,S9297)
and on NEO563, Bybjerg:
1500-1310 BC; Denmark_BA; I1a2-Z58>Z59
So if I observe correctly, we are still missing: NEO875 (Toftum Mose), NEO223, NEO227 and NEO228 (Falköping 5), NEO261 (Sillvik), NEO93 (Strøby Ladeplads), NEO857 (Lollikehuse) and NEO815 (Vasagard).
These guys come not that fare from nowadays North Dutch. Semi for fun my sample:
Bell Beaker is no wonder imo BB = Single Grave Culture admixed with TRB. In Denmark this was in the beginning a separation: SGC in the West, TRB in the East. In the North Dutch area there was no seperation, SGC came into TRB territory. And there was constants exchange between SGC and BB groups, in whole North Central Europe (incl Denmark).
Don't know if beneath the Flint Dagger culture there was the same kind of mixture.....weren't the BB's not beneath the Flint Dagger hood?
https://www.academia.edu/34798326/submit...Copenhagen
I1 could very well be related to Ertebölle people, see the Ostorf find, slightly admixed with EEF, they took early the neolithic package and spread all over de the North German Plain place about 3400 BC.
See:
https://adnaera.com/2018/09/09/a-first-a...roup-adna/
Didn't some I1 subbranches made furore in NBA?
Just a few hunches.....
Posts: 493
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Joined: Sep 2023
Gender: Male
Ethnicity: English, Scottish & Irish
Nationality: American
Y-DNA (P): I-FT80630
mtDNA (M): H1e2
(10-07-2023, 01:10 PM)Rodoorn Wrote: (10-02-2023, 03:35 PM)Kaltmeister Wrote: Pribislav on...
NEO590, Magleø:
1425-1269 BC; Denmark_BA; I1a2a1-Z58>Z59>CTS8647>Z61>Z60>Z140>Z141>A196 (xFGC19081,A1395,Y6900,FT162874)
Z61 level: Z61/S439+ G>T (1T)
Z140 level: Z140/S440+ G>A (1A)
A196 level: A196/Y5497+ T>C (2C)
on NEO220, Falköping 5:
2140-1932 BC; Sweden_BA; I1a-DF29>Z2893>Y18697 (xY10633,Y7282,A17212,S9297)
and on NEO563, Bybjerg:
1500-1310 BC; Denmark_BA; I1a2-Z58>Z59
So if I observe correctly, we are still missing: NEO875 (Toftum Mose), NEO223, NEO227 and NEO228 (Falköping 5), NEO261 (Sillvik), NEO93 (Strøby Ladeplads), NEO857 (Lollikehuse) and NEO815 (Vasagard).
These guys come not that fare from nowadays North Dutch. Semi for fun my sample:
![[Image: Scherm-afbeelding-2023-10-07-om-14-50-46.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/PJSDfNC6/Scherm-afbeelding-2023-10-07-om-14-50-46.png)
![[Image: Scherm-afbeelding-2023-10-07-om-14-50-31.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/pLFm4sJc/Scherm-afbeelding-2023-10-07-om-14-50-31.png)
Bell Beaker is no wonder imo BB = Single Grave Culture admixed with TRB. In Denmark this was in the beginning a separation: SGC in the West, TRB in the East. In the North Dutch area there was no seperation, SGC came into TRB territory. And there was constants exchange between SGC and BB groups, in whole North Central Europe (incl Denmark).
Don't know if beneath the Flint Dagger culture there was the same kind of mixture.....weren't the BB's not beneath the Flint Dagger hood?
https://www.academia.edu/34798326/submit...Copenhagen
I1 could very well be related to Ertebölle people, see the Ostorf find, slightly admixed with EEF, they took early the neolithic package and spread all over de the North German Plain place about 3400 BC.
See:
https://adnaera.com/2018/09/09/a-first-a...roup-adna/
Didn't some I1 subbranches made furore in NBA?
Just a few hunches.....
Hello Rodoorn,
I’m glad to see you made it over here. Just in case you missed it, we also have some of ph2ter’s maps for those samples:
https://genarchivist.com/showthread.php?...d=91#pid91
Paper Trail: 42% English, 31.5% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
LDNA©: Britain & Ireland: 89.3% (51.5% English, 37.8% Scottish & Irish), N.W. Germanic: 7.8%, Europe South: 2.9% (Southern Italy & Sicily)
BigY 700: I1-Z141 >F2642 >Y3649 >Y7198 (c.349 AD) >Y168300 (c.385 AD) >A13248 (c.868 AD) >A13252 (c.1047 AD) >FT81015 (c.1277 AD) >A13243 (c.1620 AD) >FT80854 (c.1700 AD) >FT80630 (1893 AD).
Posts: 92
Threads: 1
Joined: Oct 2023
10-07-2023, 04:14 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2023, 04:14 PM by MrI1.)
(10-07-2023, 12:14 PM)Strider99 Wrote: (10-06-2023, 04:13 PM)JMcB Wrote: I just got this message from Göran Runström:
“27 additional aDNA samples from Allentoft 2023 were uploaded just now. The new samples make it so that 9 out of 10 of the oldest I-M253 samples to date are from Allentoft's 2015 and 2023 studies”.
It could be a y-chromosome coverage issue? Lacking reads for certain base pair locations is different than having ancestral reads. I hope to be able to look at these samples myself one day but I’ve yet to find the BAM/BAI files for them.
See: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-M253/tree
They have also reconsidered NEO220’s call. He is now being placed under I-Y18697.
See: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-Y18697/tree
Thank you for keeping us updated, JMcB! It's very interesting to see that NEO875 does not appear to be DF29+.
It could be a y-chromosome coverage issue? Lacking reads for certain base pair locations is different than having ancestral reads. I hope to be able to look at these samples myself one day but I’ve yet to find the BAM/BAI files for them.
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