DF19 in Poland

[Dewsloth]

So far, we have only one ancient DF19 from Poland, and he wasn't very ancient:
CA0299 1000-1200 CE Groszowice, Opole, Poland DF19>DF88 (not a great coverage sample)

But the modern MDKA reported from Poland are widely varied and mostly separated from each other by thousands of years of SNP path divergence:

Looks like two could date as far back as Migration Era as distinct Polish branches (with subclade links to modern-day Germany areas), and the rest are potentially much older (200 BCE or earlier).
We only have ~ 9 DF19+ samples from Poland, but already 3 of Z17112's 9 sons have appeared.

Members From FTDNA
P312>DF19>DF88>Z43235 [One other member in Norway; common ancestor 1000 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S22352  [also 1 each Germany, Netherlands, Scotland, Ireland, UK; common ancestor 400 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY107827 [1 England, 1 France; common ancestor 200 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149>FT88173>Z43162>Z43166>FTA58254 [Four other members in Germany (Nassau/Hesse); common ancestor 350 CE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149>Z17125>Z17123>Z17126>Z40622>Z40621>Z40619>>BY145862 [1 Germany, 1 Spain*; common ancestor 500 CE]

Samples From Yfull - scientific papers (I think they might all be from Silesian region):
P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149>Z17125>Z17123>Z29040 [shares Z29040 with 890 CE Swedish VK333, also NEO52 1816 BCE Vattenledningen, Skåne, Sweden is one level up at Z17123]
www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z29040/
discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-Z29040/story [2 England, 2 Germany, 2 Scotland--plus ancient VK333 Oland Sweden; common ancestor 550 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149>FT88173>Z21280>Z39867>Z40131
www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z40131/
discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-Z40131/story [3 England, 1 Belgium, 1 Denmark; Common ancestor 200 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>S17075>FT214931 [shares S17075+/L644- FT214931 with ancient  ~250 CE Roman Britain 6DT23]
www.yfull.com/tree/R-S17075/
discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-FT214931/story [England, France, Germany, Netherlands in FTDNA--plus ancient York/Eboracum 6DT23; common ancestor 1300 BCE]

And one DF19>Z302 modern kit also from yfull:
DF19>Z302>Z39292>BY127730 [just one each British and American shared SNP on FTDNA, common ancestor 1400 BCE; ancient Alt-Inden IND002 is also Z39292]
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna...27730/tree

What does it all mean?  I'm not sure.  Every one of the Polish kits has closest kindred to the North and/or West.  
Were some of the subclades there before the Migration Period?  There are 4 DF19s in the FTDNA from Russia, so Poland does not form an eastern limit.  But the Russians could also be Volga Germans from the 18th century.

*This is the only (so far) known modern kit for a DF19 from Spain, so maybe something like Visigoth connections?

[Capsian20]

So far, we have only one ancient DF19 from Poland, and he wasn't very ancient:
CA0299 1000-1200 CE Groszowice, Opole, Poland DF19>DF88 (not a great coverage sample)

But the modern MDKA reported from Poland are widely varied and mostly separated from each other by thousands of years of SNP path divergence:

Looks like two could date as far back as Migration Era as distinct Polish branches (with subclade links to modern-day Germany areas), and the rest are potentially much older (200 BCE or earlier).
We only have ~ 9 DF19+ samples from Poland, but already 3 of Z17112's 9 sons have appeared.

Members From FTDNA
P312>DF19>DF88>Z43235 [One other member in Norway; common ancestor 1000 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S22352  [also 1 each Germany, Netherlands, Scotland, Ireland, UK; common ancestor 400 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY107827 [1 England, 1 France; common ancestor 200 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149>FT88173>Z43162>Z43166>FTA58254 [Four other members in Germany (Nassau/Hesse); common ancestor 350 CE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149>Z17125>Z17123>Z17126>Z40622>Z40621>Z40619>>BY145862 [1 Germany, 1 Spain*; common ancestor 500 CE]

Samples From Yfull - scientific papers (I think they might all be from Silesian region):
P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149>Z17125>Z17123>Z29040 [shares Z29040 with 890 CE Swedish VK333, also NEO52 1816 BCE Vattenledningen, Skåne, Sweden is one level up at Z17123]
www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z29040/
discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-Z29040/story [2 England, 2 Germany, 2 Scotland--plus ancient VK333 Oland Sweden; common ancestor 550 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149>FT88173>Z21280>Z39867>Z40131
www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z40131/
discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-Z40131/story [3 England, 1 Belgium, 1 Denmark; Common ancestor 200 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>S17075>FT214931 [shares S17075+/L644- FT214931 with ancient  ~250 CE Roman Britain 6DT23]
www.yfull.com/tree/R-S17075/
discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-FT214931/story [England, France, Germany, Netherlands in FTDNA--plus ancient York/Eboracum 6DT23; common ancestor 1300 BCE]

And one DF19>Z302 modern kit also from yfull:
DF19>Z302>Z39292>BY127730 [just one each British and American shared SNP on FTDNA, common ancestor 1400 BCE; ancient Alt-Inden IND002 is also Z39292]
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna...27730/tree

What does it all mean?  I'm not sure.  Every one of the Polish kits has closest kindred to the North and/or West.  
Were some of the subclades there before the Migration Period?  There are 4 DF19s in the FTDNA from Russia, so Poland does not form an eastern limit.  But the Russians could also be Volga Germans from the 18th century.

*This is the only (so far) known modern kit for a DF19 from Spain, so maybe something like Visigoth connections?

Very interested i didnt know there sample in spain maybe my cousin side my grandmother maternal Descendants Visigoth

[Dewsloth]

*This is the only (so far) known modern kit for a DF19 from Spain, so maybe something like Visigoth connections?

Very interested i didnt know there sample in spain maybe my cousin side my grandmother maternal Descendants Visigoth

There is also one FTDNA kit from Portugal, he is on their Block Tree as a Big Y kit, but is P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281 ... and stops there (S4281* + private SNPs) - so his branch has been by itself since LN/Beaker times, with no more recent SNPs with any other kit =8-O

He is not in the DF19 member group and I don't know any more about him

We really need to get your cousin tested

[Dewsloth]

I just noticed that this Polish connection (from post 1) matches Hiddestorf's HID001 elite burial at FTDNA's Discover:

Polish Modern Members From FTDNA
P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY107827 [1 England, 1 France; common ancestor 200 BCE]

HID001 530 CE Hiddestorf, Germany DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY107827

Saxons? Vandals? Thuringii? Chatti? Who the heck knows, their ancestors had 700 years to drift around before HID001 took a spear to the chest

[Dewsloth]

So far, we have only one ancient DF19 from Poland, and he wasn't very ancient:
CA0299 1000-1200 CE Groszowice, Opole, Poland DF19>DF88 (not a great coverage sample)

But the modern MDKA reported from Poland are widely varied and mostly separated from each other by thousands of years of SNP path divergence:

Looks like two could date as far back as Migration Era as distinct Polish branches (with subclade links to modern-day Germany areas), and the rest are potentially much older (200 BCE or earlier).
We only have ~ 9 DF19+ samples from Poland, but already 3 of Z17112's 9 sons have appeared.

Members From FTDNA
P312>DF19>DF88>Z43235 [One other member in Norway; common ancestor 1000 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S22352  [also 1 each Germany, Netherlands, Scotland, Ireland, UK; common ancestor 400 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY107827 [1 England, 1 France; common ancestor 200 BCE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149>FT88173>Z43162>Z43166>FTA58254 [Four other members in Germany (Nassau/Hesse); common ancestor 350 CE]

P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149>Z17125>Z17123>Z17126>Z40622>Z40621>Z40619>>BY145862 [1 Germany, 1 Spain*; common ancestor 500 CE]

Another "son" of Z17112 now found in Poland MDKA:
DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>Z21380>BY42641>L719>Z30475>Z30485>FTC28990 [Also one in Russia, tmrca 650 CE]