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Ancient sample HV or HV* in Italy 22.000 B.C
#1
Hello everyone interesting there is an ancient sample in Italy dating back 24,000 years that belongs to mtDNA Haplogroup HV or pre-HV
what is mean this ?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC164492/
Target: CapsianWGS_scaled
Distance: 1.2510% / 0.01251049
37.2 Iberomaurusian
36.8 Early_European_Farmer
12.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
8.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
4.8 SSA
0.4 Iran_Neolithic
FTDNA : 91% North Africa +<2% Bedouin + <2  Southern-Levantinfo + <1 Sephardic Jewish + 3% Malta +  3%  Iberian Peninsula
23andME :  100% North Africa

WGS ( Y-DNA and mtDNA)
Y-DNA: E-A30032< A30480 ~1610 CE
mtDNA: V12
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#2
Publication date 2003: Tl;DR nothing to see here.
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#3
Yes i know this publication its old back a 2003 , but i see history mtDNA HV in Europe maybe its before spread EEF
Target: CapsianWGS_scaled
Distance: 1.2510% / 0.01251049
37.2 Iberomaurusian
36.8 Early_European_Farmer
12.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
8.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
4.8 SSA
0.4 Iran_Neolithic
FTDNA : 91% North Africa +<2% Bedouin + <2  Southern-Levantinfo + <1 Sephardic Jewish + 3% Malta +  3%  Iberian Peninsula
23andME :  100% North Africa

WGS ( Y-DNA and mtDNA)
Y-DNA: E-A30032< A30480 ~1610 CE
mtDNA: V12
Reply
#4
(10-12-2024, 10:01 PM)Capsian20 Wrote: Yes i know this publication its old back a 2003 , but i see history mtDNA HV in Europe maybe its before spread EEF

This is fascinating. I wasn't aware of it and thanks for posting. We have the Cnoc Coig sample that hints at a spread of V in the European Mesolithic, but my guess in general at this point based on the aDNA I know of is that V was mainly focused in what would become the LBK area a few thousand years ago and was then widely distributed through the farmers. 

I think you agree with me that the TMRCA estimates for V subclades are wildly wrong. Hence I guess that my V78 Tunisian match (the only identifiable one I have) dates to a very long time in the past rather than the past millennium or so
Y: I1 Z140+ FT354410+; mtDNA: V78
Recent tree: mainly West Country England and Southeast Wales
Y line: Peak District, c.1300. Swedish IA/VA matches; last = 715AD YFull, 849AD FTDNA
mtDNA: Llanvihangel Pont-y-moile, 1825
Mother's Y: R-BY11922+; Llanvair Discoed, 1770
Avatar: Welsh Borders hillfort, 1980s
Anthrogenica member 2015-23
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#5
(10-12-2024, 10:18 PM)JonikW Wrote:
(10-12-2024, 10:01 PM)Capsian20 Wrote: Yes i know this publication its old back a 2003 , but i see history mtDNA HV in Europe maybe its before spread EEF

This is fascinating. I wasn't aware of it and thanks for posting. We have the Cnoc Coig sample that hints at a spread of V in the European Mesolithic, but my guess in general at this point based on the aDNA I know of is that V was mainly focused in what would become the LBK area a few thousand years ago and was then widely distributed through the farmers. 

I think you agree with me that the TMRCA estimates for V subclades are wildly wrong. Hence I guess that my V78 Tunisian match (the only identifiable one I have) dates to a very long time in the past rather than the past millennium or so

I believe the history of haplogroup HV in Europe is unclear, or perhaps each branch came in different eras. In the future, there may be new findings that could help us understand the migrations of this Haplogroup
Yes, of course, its clear that the TMRCA ages in FTDNA are inaccurate , unfortunately, i was contacted YFull multiple times to correct the branch ages, but to no avail
Honestly, Ive lost hope to correct ages Haplogroup HV , as is seems they focus more on Y-DNA compare mtDNA , it looks like theyre falling into the same mistake that FTDNA made, though FTDNA has started correcting the issue, i believe MitoDiscover will be a strong competitor to Mtree by YFull
For your subclade V78 there sample from Algeria not Tunisia
yes i think your TMRCA with sample berber Algeria  over 2000 years
Target: CapsianWGS_scaled
Distance: 1.2510% / 0.01251049
37.2 Iberomaurusian
36.8 Early_European_Farmer
12.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
8.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
4.8 SSA
0.4 Iran_Neolithic
FTDNA : 91% North Africa +<2% Bedouin + <2  Southern-Levantinfo + <1 Sephardic Jewish + 3% Malta +  3%  Iberian Peninsula
23andME :  100% North Africa

WGS ( Y-DNA and mtDNA)
Y-DNA: E-A30032< A30480 ~1610 CE
mtDNA: V12
Reply
#6
(10-12-2024, 10:56 PM)Capsian20 Wrote:
(10-12-2024, 10:18 PM)JonikW Wrote:
(10-12-2024, 10:01 PM)Capsian20 Wrote: Yes i know this publication its old back a 2003 , but i see history mtDNA HV in Europe maybe its before spread EEF

This is fascinating. I wasn't aware of it and thanks for posting. We have the Cnoc Coig sample that hints at a spread of V in the European Mesolithic, but my guess in general at this point based on the aDNA I know of is that V was mainly focused in what would become the LBK area a few thousand years ago and was then widely distributed through the farmers. 

I think you agree with me that the TMRCA estimates for V subclades are wildly wrong. Hence I guess that my V78 Tunisian match (the only identifiable one I have) dates to a very long time in the past rather than the past millennium or so

I believe the history of haplogroup HV in Europe is unclear, or perhaps each branch came in different eras. In the future, there may be new findings that could help us understand the migrations of this Haplogroup
Yes, of course, its clear that the TMRCA ages in FTDNA are inaccurate , unfortunately, i was contacted YFull multiple times to correct the branch ages, but to no avail
Honestly, Ive lost hope to correct ages Haplogroup HV , as is seems they focus more on Y-DNA compare mtDNA , it looks like theyre falling into the same mistake that FTDNA made, though FTDNA has started correcting the issue, i believe MitoDiscover will be a strong competitor to Mtree by YFull
For your subclade V78 there sample from Algeria not Tunisia
yes i think your TMRCA with sample berber Algeria  over 2000 years

I agree with everything you say here. Y and mtDNA are completely different beasts when it comes to age estimates and they've got a lot to think about with the methodology. Thanks too for pointing out that the other V78 sample is Algeria not Tunisia. My memory failed me again there :-)
Y: I1 Z140+ FT354410+; mtDNA: V78
Recent tree: mainly West Country England and Southeast Wales
Y line: Peak District, c.1300. Swedish IA/VA matches; last = 715AD YFull, 849AD FTDNA
mtDNA: Llanvihangel Pont-y-moile, 1825
Mother's Y: R-BY11922+; Llanvair Discoed, 1770
Avatar: Welsh Borders hillfort, 1980s
Anthrogenica member 2015-23
Reply
#7
(10-12-2024, 11:19 PM)JonikW Wrote:
(10-12-2024, 10:56 PM)Capsian20 Wrote:
(10-12-2024, 10:18 PM)JonikW Wrote: This is fascinating. I wasn't aware of it and thanks for posting. We have the Cnoc Coig sample that hints at a spread of V in the European Mesolithic, but my guess in general at this point based on the aDNA I know of is that V was mainly focused in what would become the LBK area a few thousand years ago and was then widely distributed through the farmers. 

I think you agree with me that the TMRCA estimates for V subclades are wildly wrong. Hence I guess that my V78 Tunisian match (the only identifiable one I have) dates to a very long time in the past rather than the past millennium or so

I believe the history of haplogroup HV in Europe is unclear, or perhaps each branch came in different eras. In the future, there may be new findings that could help us understand the migrations of this Haplogroup
Yes, of course, its clear that the TMRCA ages in FTDNA are inaccurate , unfortunately, i was contacted YFull multiple times to correct the branch ages, but to no avail
Honestly, Ive lost hope to correct ages Haplogroup HV , as is seems they focus more on Y-DNA compare mtDNA , it looks like theyre falling into the same mistake that FTDNA made, though FTDNA has started correcting the issue, i believe MitoDiscover will be a strong competitor to Mtree by YFull
For your subclade V78 there sample from Algeria not Tunisia
yes i think your TMRCA with sample berber Algeria  over 2000 years

I agree with everything you say here. Y and mtDNA are completely different beasts when it comes to age estimates and they've got a lot to think about with the methodology. Thanks too for pointing out that the other V78 sample is Algeria not Tunisia. My memory failed me again there :-)

Is seems to me that the release of MitoDiscover by FTDNA could ignite competition between them and YFull
It looks like FTDNA has surpassed them by a long way, especially since MitoDiscover will be similar to Y-DNA Discover , YFull has not yet developed or updated the ages of mtDNA haplogroup HV, as they do not seem logical
I see that there will be competition between them in the coming months, and this will be in our favor
Its okay , sometimes mistakes
Humanist likes this post
Target: CapsianWGS_scaled
Distance: 1.2510% / 0.01251049
37.2 Iberomaurusian
36.8 Early_European_Farmer
12.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
8.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
4.8 SSA
0.4 Iran_Neolithic
FTDNA : 91% North Africa +<2% Bedouin + <2  Southern-Levantinfo + <1 Sephardic Jewish + 3% Malta +  3%  Iberian Peninsula
23andME :  100% North Africa

WGS ( Y-DNA and mtDNA)
Y-DNA: E-A30032< A30480 ~1610 CE
mtDNA: V12
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