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10-03-2024, 11:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2024, 11:15 PM by TanTin.)
(10-03-2024, 10:53 PM)Inquirer Wrote: (10-03-2024, 09:44 PM)TanTin Wrote: (10-03-2024, 09:13 PM)Inquirer Wrote: Link to v62 Dataset.
What haplogroups does oub002 carry? Are they in the data set? Also, I have the G25 coordinates for oub002. The ancestry of this sample doesn't seem to be much different from that of the Taforalt samples, and it's about ten thousand years younger. It doesn't provide any new insight into the ancestral origins of paleolithic North Africans, so what's so special about it?
(female) .. .. U6a6b
Is that information in the dataset? How do I find it in there? Also, why do you find this sample to be so special?
Will explain to you: this one is a very high quality, high coverage. The age if it is also ancient: 5680-5550calBCE (6706±31; Ua56649)
almost 7k old...
If it was a man, I bet it would be some E_ haplogroup from TAF cluster.
But most important: it is a very high coverage.. Almost like someone living these days..
So we have a clear picture of this population that lived in North Africa some 7k ago.
We have some other TAF cluster population representatives. And these are near 20k old, but these TAF are lower coverage, much lower.
So now we have someone who is near the same as TAF in full coverage..
Imagine ?
And this is not all.. The same TAF population was there for not only 20k, but probably for 40 or 50k ?
So this woman oub002 is a very good idea of who were this ancient people living in North Africa some 50 - 20 k years ago, up to 10 k ago.
PP.. to find the additional information: sex, Y-chr, Mit, geographical location, publication: you just open the .anno file and check the line for this sample.
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(10-03-2024, 11:07 PM)TanTin Wrote: (10-03-2024, 10:53 PM)Inquirer Wrote: (10-03-2024, 09:44 PM)TanTin Wrote: (female) .. .. U6a6b
Is that information in the dataset? How do I find it in there? Also, why do you find this sample to be so special?
Will explain to you: this one is a very high quality, high coverage. The age if it is also ancient: 5680-5550calBCE (6706±31; Ua56649)
almost 7k old...
If it was a man, I bet it would be some E_ haplogroup from TAF cluster.
But most important: it is a very high coverage.. Almost like someone living these days..
So we have a clear picture of this population that lived in North Africa some 7k ago.
We have some other TAF cluster population representatives. And these are near 20k old, but these TAF are lower coverage, much lower.
So now we have someone who is near the same as TAF in full coverage..
Imagine ?
And this is not all.. The same TAF population was there for not only 20k, but probably for 40 or 50k ?
So this woman oub002 is a very good idea of who were this ancient people living in North Africa some 50 - 20 k years ago, up to 10 k ago.
You do have a strong point. This sample does indicate that the ancestral makeup of the Iberomaurusians of Taforalt had been around for quite a long time. However, it's not revelatory in regard to Ancestral North Africans, so it doesn't reveal anything new.
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(10-03-2024, 11:14 PM)Inquirer Wrote: You do have a strong point. This sample does indicate that the ancestral makeup of the Iberomaurusians of Taforalt had been around for quite a long time. However, it's not revelatory in regard to Ancestral North Africans, so it doesn't reveal anything new.
I am telling you: North Africa is a lot of questions for me... I have some other NorthAfrica examples that can make you "crazy".. Don't fit to any model so far..
So this one oub002 is the perfect one to put some calm in the crazy stuff. And we may reject the other "crazy" as outliers.
In addition this oub002 is not too far from some other Eurasian like Zlaty Kun, Bacho Kiro and Ust Ishim.. But of courese oub002 is more closely related to the recently published Ranis examples. Therefore all fit on its plase as it should be.
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(10-03-2024, 11:22 PM)TanTin Wrote: (10-03-2024, 11:14 PM)Inquirer Wrote: You do have a strong point. This sample does indicate that the ancestral makeup of the Iberomaurusians of Taforalt had been around for quite a long time. However, it's not revelatory in regard to Ancestral North Africans, so it doesn't reveal anything new.
I am telling you: North Africa is a lot of questions for me... I have some other NorthAfrica examples that can make you "crazy".. Don't fit to any model so far..
So this one oub002 is the perfect one to put some calm in the crazy stuff. And we may reject the other "crazy" as outliers.
In addition this oub002 is not too far from some other Eurasian like Zlaty Kun, Bacho Kiro and Ust Ishim.. But of courese oub002 is more closely related to the recently published Ranis examples. Therefore all fit on its plase as it should be.
What are these crazy outliers? Also, what has become of the paper that's mentioned in the OP?
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(10-03-2024, 11:46 PM)Inquirer Wrote: What are these crazy outliers? Also, what has become of the paper that's mentioned in the OP? The outliers were published by LazaridisNature2014..
They are in HO dataset. Morocco
The orriginal paper did not pay any attention on them, they just ignored them, however they continue re-publish them with the next versions of the HO datasets.
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(10-03-2024, 09:13 PM)Inquirer Wrote: (09-17-2024, 05:11 PM)Genetics189291 Wrote: (09-17-2024, 04:56 PM)TanTin Wrote: We have the high quality oub002.SG Morocco_OUB_EpiP.SG 5680-5550calBCE. It is in the new v62 dataset.
Is there a new dataset I didn’t know?
Can you link me to the new dataset thanks
Link to v62 Dataset.
(09-17-2024, 04:56 PM)TanTin Wrote: We have the high quality oub002.SG Morocco_OUB_EpiP.SG 5680-5550calBCE. It is in the new v62 dataset.
What haplogroups does oub002 carry? Are they in the data set? Also, I have the G25 coordinates for oub002. The ancestry of this sample doesn't seem to be much different from that of the Taforalt samples, and it's about ten thousand years younger. It doesn't provide any new insight into the ancestral origins of paleolithic North Africans, so what's so special about it?
From what I can tell it’s more Ana shifted then the others
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10-05-2024, 04:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2024, 04:48 PM by Inquirer.)
(10-05-2024, 03:51 PM)Genetics189291 Wrote: (10-03-2024, 09:13 PM)Inquirer Wrote: (09-17-2024, 05:11 PM)Genetics189291 Wrote: Is there a new dataset I didn’t know?
Can you link me to the new dataset thanks
Link to v62 Dataset.
(09-17-2024, 04:56 PM)TanTin Wrote: We have the high quality oub002.SG Morocco_OUB_EpiP.SG 5680-5550calBCE. It is in the new v62 dataset.
What haplogroups does oub002 carry? Are they in the data set? Also, I have the G25 coordinates for oub002. The ancestry of this sample doesn't seem to be much different from that of the Taforalt samples, and it's about ten thousand years younger. It doesn't provide any new insight into the ancestral origins of paleolithic North Africans, so what's so special about it?
From what I can tell it’s more Ana shifted then the others
It appears to barely be so based on G25 coordinates. What do you think of these results?
Targets & Sources:
Quote:Targets:
Taforalt_(12699.BCE)_TAF010_Cov_64.50%,-0.193499,0.083273,-0.03017,-0.088502,0.034776,-0.055499,-0.076378,0.019384,0.163619,0.008565,0.02111,-0.030573,0.07879,-0.046104,0.077496,-0.046141,-0.00665,-0.069805,-0.144176,0.036518,-0.042924,-0.129217,0.07629,-0.015303,0.018322
Taforalt_(12550.BCE)_TAF013_Cov_80.17%,-0.196914,0.082258,-0.026398,-0.088502,0.032314,-0.057173,-0.074733,0.017768,0.156665,0.002369,0.02111,-0.036717,0.077898,-0.052159,0.072746,-0.038584,0.000913,-0.069552,-0.141285,0.039894,-0.035687,-0.125384,0.075428,-0.011206,0.020477
Taforalt_(12550.BCE)_TAF014_Cov_77.96%,-0.201467,0.079211,-0.018479,-0.083011,0.034468,-0.055499,-0.076848,0.014538,0.162596,0.002005,0.020461,-0.029374,0.078344,-0.054223,0.066503,-0.025192,0.017602,-0.063724,-0.151215,0.04127,-0.042176,-0.126126,0.077153,-0.014339,0.012693
Taforalt_(12500.BCE)_TAF011_Cov_83.83%,-0.194638,0.085304,-0.021873,-0.088825,0.026774,-0.059961,-0.072148,0.019845,0.161165,0.002551,0.016564,-0.035818,0.080574,-0.051196,0.066367,-0.037523,0.012126,-0.071199,-0.14493,0.035767,-0.041427,-0.12662,0.068279,-0.011447,0.018441
Taforalt_(12271.BCE)_TAF009_Cov_16.98%,-0.162767,0.07718,-0.024513,-0.079135,0.009848,-0.047969,-0.052877,0.020538,0.13294,0.002005,0.025333,-0.026676,0.057978,-0.052985,0.072882,-0.034076,0.002347,-0.05625,-0.130475,0.04152,-0.026204,-0.120314,0.067909,-0.016508,0.012334
oub002_(5615.BCE),-0.188946,0.096475,-0.026776,-0.098515,0.028005,-0.06024,-0.068153,0.022845,0.164437,-0.002551,0.0177,-0.025627,0.088304,-0.043489,0.076003,-0.05171,-0.007171,-0.072593,-0.152346,0.047148,-0.042425,-0.139233,0.086643,-0.015183,0.020956
Sources:
Ancestral.North.African:1,-0.493537,-0.003656,-0.078366,-0.088502,-0.015511,-0.07028,-0.135319,0.034983,0.263345,-0.072639,0.035823,-0.072805,0.170841,-0.093308,0.184471,-0.068894,-0.033665,-0.129425,-0.292878,0.079238,-0.061516,-0.254403,0.149475,-0.018244,0.038534
Ancestral.North.African:2,-0.385,0.055,-0.12,-0.255,-0.035,-0.13,-0.145,0.02,0.22,0.003499,0.045,-0.0625,0.155,-0.085,0.135,-0.08,0,-0.105,-0.275,0.0389938,-0.085,-0.205,0.185,0.055,0.0215
Dzudzuana_(Georgia.24000.BCE),0.062603,0.099522,-0.009428,-0.002261,0.029852,-0.017012,0.001175,-0.001846,0.03211,0.02606,0.007632,-0.011989,0.001635,0.012799,0.000271,-0.003182,-0.01343,0.004687,-0.007416,0.003377,0.026453,0.007172,-0.01479,-0.029281,-0.00012
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(10-05-2024, 04:47 PM)Inquirer Wrote: (10-05-2024, 03:51 PM)Genetics189291 Wrote: (10-03-2024, 09:13 PM)Inquirer Wrote: Link to v62 Dataset.
What haplogroups does oub002 carry? Are they in the data set? Also, I have the G25 coordinates for oub002. The ancestry of this sample doesn't seem to be much different from that of the Taforalt samples, and it's about ten thousand years younger. It doesn't provide any new insight into the ancestral origins of paleolithic North Africans, so what's so special about it?
From what I can tell it’s more Ana shifted then the others
It appears to barely be so based on G25 coordinates. What do you think of these results?
Targets & Sources:
Quote:Targets:
Taforalt_(12699.BCE)_TAF010_Cov_64.50%,-0.193499,0.083273,-0.03017,-0.088502,0.034776,-0.055499,-0.076378,0.019384,0.163619,0.008565,0.02111,-0.030573,0.07879,-0.046104,0.077496,-0.046141,-0.00665,-0.069805,-0.144176,0.036518,-0.042924,-0.129217,0.07629,-0.015303,0.018322
Taforalt_(12550.BCE)_TAF013_Cov_80.17%,-0.196914,0.082258,-0.026398,-0.088502,0.032314,-0.057173,-0.074733,0.017768,0.156665,0.002369,0.02111,-0.036717,0.077898,-0.052159,0.072746,-0.038584,0.000913,-0.069552,-0.141285,0.039894,-0.035687,-0.125384,0.075428,-0.011206,0.020477
Taforalt_(12550.BCE)_TAF014_Cov_77.96%,-0.201467,0.079211,-0.018479,-0.083011,0.034468,-0.055499,-0.076848,0.014538,0.162596,0.002005,0.020461,-0.029374,0.078344,-0.054223,0.066503,-0.025192,0.017602,-0.063724,-0.151215,0.04127,-0.042176,-0.126126,0.077153,-0.014339,0.012693
Taforalt_(12500.BCE)_TAF011_Cov_83.83%,-0.194638,0.085304,-0.021873,-0.088825,0.026774,-0.059961,-0.072148,0.019845,0.161165,0.002551,0.016564,-0.035818,0.080574,-0.051196,0.066367,-0.037523,0.012126,-0.071199,-0.14493,0.035767,-0.041427,-0.12662,0.068279,-0.011447,0.018441
Taforalt_(12271.BCE)_TAF009_Cov_16.98%,-0.162767,0.07718,-0.024513,-0.079135,0.009848,-0.047969,-0.052877,0.020538,0.13294,0.002005,0.025333,-0.026676,0.057978,-0.052985,0.072882,-0.034076,0.002347,-0.05625,-0.130475,0.04152,-0.026204,-0.120314,0.067909,-0.016508,0.012334
oub002_(5615.BCE),-0.188946,0.096475,-0.026776,-0.098515,0.028005,-0.06024,-0.068153,0.022845,0.164437,-0.002551,0.0177,-0.025627,0.088304,-0.043489,0.076003,-0.05171,-0.007171,-0.072593,-0.152346,0.047148,-0.042425,-0.139233,0.086643,-0.015183,0.020956
Sources:
Ancestral.North.African:1,-0.493537,-0.003656,-0.078366,-0.088502,-0.015511,-0.07028,-0.135319,0.034983,0.263345,-0.072639,0.035823,-0.072805,0.170841,-0.093308,0.184471,-0.068894,-0.033665,-0.129425,-0.292878,0.079238,-0.061516,-0.254403,0.149475,-0.018244,0.038534
Ancestral.North.African:2,-0.385,0.055,-0.12,-0.255,-0.035,-0.13,-0.145,0.02,0.22,0.003499,0.045,-0.0625,0.155,-0.085,0.135,-0.08,0,-0.105,-0.275,0.0389938,-0.085,-0.205,0.185,0.055,0.0215
Dzudzuana_(Georgia.24000.BCE),0.062603,0.099522,-0.009428,-0.002261,0.029852,-0.017012,0.001175,-0.001846,0.03211,0.02606,0.007632,-0.011989,0.001635,0.012799,0.000271,-0.003182,-0.01343,0.004687,-0.007416,0.003377,0.026453,0.007172,-0.01479,-0.029281,-0.00012
From my tests it’s more Ana shifted then a percent in terms of distances and results. I noticed an increase in western Eurasian ancestry when using oub002 then normal ibm samples
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(10-06-2024, 12:20 AM)Genetics189291 Wrote: (10-05-2024, 04:47 PM)Inquirer Wrote: (10-05-2024, 03:51 PM)Genetics189291 Wrote: From what I can tell it’s more Ana shifted then the others
It appears to barely be so based on G25 coordinates. What do you think of these results?
Targets & Sources:
Quote:Targets:
Taforalt_(12699.BCE)_TAF010_Cov_64.50%,-0.193499,0.083273,-0.03017,-0.088502,0.034776,-0.055499,-0.076378,0.019384,0.163619,0.008565,0.02111,-0.030573,0.07879,-0.046104,0.077496,-0.046141,-0.00665,-0.069805,-0.144176,0.036518,-0.042924,-0.129217,0.07629,-0.015303,0.018322
Taforalt_(12550.BCE)_TAF013_Cov_80.17%,-0.196914,0.082258,-0.026398,-0.088502,0.032314,-0.057173,-0.074733,0.017768,0.156665,0.002369,0.02111,-0.036717,0.077898,-0.052159,0.072746,-0.038584,0.000913,-0.069552,-0.141285,0.039894,-0.035687,-0.125384,0.075428,-0.011206,0.020477
Taforalt_(12550.BCE)_TAF014_Cov_77.96%,-0.201467,0.079211,-0.018479,-0.083011,0.034468,-0.055499,-0.076848,0.014538,0.162596,0.002005,0.020461,-0.029374,0.078344,-0.054223,0.066503,-0.025192,0.017602,-0.063724,-0.151215,0.04127,-0.042176,-0.126126,0.077153,-0.014339,0.012693
Taforalt_(12500.BCE)_TAF011_Cov_83.83%,-0.194638,0.085304,-0.021873,-0.088825,0.026774,-0.059961,-0.072148,0.019845,0.161165,0.002551,0.016564,-0.035818,0.080574,-0.051196,0.066367,-0.037523,0.012126,-0.071199,-0.14493,0.035767,-0.041427,-0.12662,0.068279,-0.011447,0.018441
Taforalt_(12271.BCE)_TAF009_Cov_16.98%,-0.162767,0.07718,-0.024513,-0.079135,0.009848,-0.047969,-0.052877,0.020538,0.13294,0.002005,0.025333,-0.026676,0.057978,-0.052985,0.072882,-0.034076,0.002347,-0.05625,-0.130475,0.04152,-0.026204,-0.120314,0.067909,-0.016508,0.012334
oub002_(5615.BCE),-0.188946,0.096475,-0.026776,-0.098515,0.028005,-0.06024,-0.068153,0.022845,0.164437,-0.002551,0.0177,-0.025627,0.088304,-0.043489,0.076003,-0.05171,-0.007171,-0.072593,-0.152346,0.047148,-0.042425,-0.139233,0.086643,-0.015183,0.020956
Sources:
Ancestral.North.African:1,-0.493537,-0.003656,-0.078366,-0.088502,-0.015511,-0.07028,-0.135319,0.034983,0.263345,-0.072639,0.035823,-0.072805,0.170841,-0.093308,0.184471,-0.068894,-0.033665,-0.129425,-0.292878,0.079238,-0.061516,-0.254403,0.149475,-0.018244,0.038534
Ancestral.North.African:2,-0.385,0.055,-0.12,-0.255,-0.035,-0.13,-0.145,0.02,0.22,0.003499,0.045,-0.0625,0.155,-0.085,0.135,-0.08,0,-0.105,-0.275,0.0389938,-0.085,-0.205,0.185,0.055,0.0215
Dzudzuana_(Georgia.24000.BCE),0.062603,0.099522,-0.009428,-0.002261,0.029852,-0.017012,0.001175,-0.001846,0.03211,0.02606,0.007632,-0.011989,0.001635,0.012799,0.000271,-0.003182,-0.01343,0.004687,-0.007416,0.003377,0.026453,0.007172,-0.01479,-0.029281,-0.00012
From my tests it’s more Ana shifted then a percent in terms of distances and results. I noticed an increase in western Eurasian ancestry when using oub002 then normal ibm samples
Are you implying that more ANA ancestry correlates with more Western Eurasian ancestry?
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(10-06-2024, 12:27 AM)Inquirer Wrote: (10-06-2024, 12:20 AM)Genetics189291 Wrote: (10-05-2024, 04:47 PM)Inquirer Wrote: It appears to barely be so based on G25 coordinates. What do you think of these results?
Targets & Sources:
From my tests it’s more Ana shifted then a percent in terms of distances and results. I noticed an increase in western Eurasian ancestry when using oub002 then normal ibm samples
Are you implying that more ANA ancestry correlates with more Western Eurasian ancestry?
That was the case for us and not an increase in natufian but Anatolian and steppe ancestry which means whatever that western Eurasian ancestry is seems to be more Anatolian like then anything
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