Niger-Congo Ancestry In East African Peoples
#1
I've noticed via G25 coordinates that there is genetic overlap between Niger-Congo peoples (West Africans & Bantus) and East African peoples. I've assumed that in the cases of the Hadza and the Sandawe, this overlap is due to admixture that their lineages received from Bantus in the past ~3,000 years, during the Bantu Expansion; this scenario probably applies to the Luo and other nearby peoples as well.

However, in the cases of more northern peoples, namely Nilotes and Afro-Asiatic Horners, I'm not sure whether it's due to the Bantu expansion or an older admixture event that would have occurred in the Sahara between Ancestral Niger-Congo peoples and Proto-Nilotes (the latter of whom would have later mixed with peoples carrying Iberomaurusian, Natufian, and Neolithic Levantine ancestry to create Afro-Asiatic peoples).

Attached is a list of models that I generated via Vahaduo using the following G25 coordinates.

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What do you think?

   
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#2
It is known that various East African people had different kinds of contacts with Bantu people, including slavery. And the numbers are low enough to be explained by that kind of low level gene flow with small scale migrations and slavery. Also, the leval of Bantu admixture correlates well with the known patterns, like the Mursi and Gumuz having higher admixture levels.
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#3
(09-30-2024, 09:43 PM)Riverman Wrote: It is known that various East African people had different kinds of contacts with Bantu people, including slavery. And the numbers are low enough to be explained by that kind of low level gene flow with small scale migrations and slavery. Also, the leval of Bantu admixture correlates well with the known patterns, like the Mursi and Gumuz having higher admixture levels.

So, the Bantu managed to penetrate even Ethiopia (where the Mursi and Gumuz reside)? Wow, their migration was very expansive. As far as I'm aware, the Mursi and Gumuz don't carry the main Niger-Congo paternal haplogroup, E-M2, as far as I'm aware. However, I know that peoples in the Horn carry E-M75 (source), which indicates that the Mursi and Gumuz may carry it as well since they reside in the Horn. Do you think that they inherited E-M75 from Bantus? 

Also, what about Nilotes? They don't carry E-M2 or E-M75 (as far as I'm aware), but they do carry L1 and L2, which are signature Niger-Congo maternal haplogroups. Do you think they they inherited these haplogroups from Bantu females?
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#4
(09-30-2024, 09:56 PM)Inquirer Wrote:
(09-30-2024, 09:43 PM)Riverman Wrote: It is known that various East African people had different kinds of contacts with Bantu people, including slavery. And the numbers are low enough to be explained by that kind of low level gene flow with small scale migrations and slavery. Also, the leval of Bantu admixture correlates well with the known patterns, like the Mursi and Gumuz having higher admixture levels.

So, the Bantu managed to penetrate even Ethiopia (where the Mursi and Gumuz reside)? Wow, their migration was very expansive. As far as I'm aware, the Mursi and Gumuz don't carry the main Niger-Congo paternal haplogroup, E-M2, as far as I'm aware. However, I know that peoples in the Horn carry E-M75 (source), which indicates that the Mursi and Gumuz may carry it as well since they reside in the Horn. Do you think that they inherited E-M75 from Bantus? 

Also, what about Nilotes? They don't carry E-M2 or E-M75 (as far as I'm aware), but they do carry L1 and L2, which are signature Niger-Congo maternal haplogroups. Do you think they they inherited these haplogroups from Bantu females?

There seems to have been migrations along the Sahara-Sahel routes. And yes, the Bantus/Niger-Congo groups were very expansive.
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#5
(09-30-2024, 10:29 PM)Riverman Wrote:
(09-30-2024, 09:56 PM)Inquirer Wrote:
(09-30-2024, 09:43 PM)Riverman Wrote: It is known that various East African people had different kinds of contacts with Bantu people, including slavery. And the numbers are low enough to be explained by that kind of low level gene flow with small scale migrations and slavery. Also, the leval of Bantu admixture correlates well with the known patterns, like the Mursi and Gumuz having higher admixture levels.

So, the Bantu managed to penetrate even Ethiopia (where the Mursi and Gumuz reside)? Wow, their migration was very expansive. As far as I'm aware, the Mursi and Gumuz don't carry the main Niger-Congo paternal haplogroup, E-M2, as far as I'm aware. However, I know that peoples in the Horn carry E-M75 (source), which indicates that the Mursi and Gumuz may carry it as well since they reside in the Horn. Do you think that they inherited E-M75 from Bantus? 

Also, what about Nilotes? They don't carry E-M2 or E-M75 (as far as I'm aware), but they do carry L1 and L2, which are signature Niger-Congo maternal haplogroups. Do you think they they inherited these haplogroups from Bantu females?

There seems to have been migrations along the Sahara-Sahel routes. And yes, the Bantus/Niger-Congo groups were very expansive.

So, you don't think there was an admixture event between Ancestral Niger-Congo Peoples and Proto-Nilotes?
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#6
(09-30-2024, 10:47 PM)Inquirer Wrote:
(09-30-2024, 10:29 PM)Riverman Wrote:
(09-30-2024, 09:56 PM)Inquirer Wrote: So, the Bantu managed to penetrate even Ethiopia (where the Mursi and Gumuz reside)? Wow, their migration was very expansive. As far as I'm aware, the Mursi and Gumuz don't carry the main Niger-Congo paternal haplogroup, E-M2, as far as I'm aware. However, I know that peoples in the Horn carry E-M75 (source), which indicates that the Mursi and Gumuz may carry it as well since they reside in the Horn. Do you think that they inherited E-M75 from Bantus? 

Also, what about Nilotes? They don't carry E-M2 or E-M75 (as far as I'm aware), but they do carry L1 and L2, which are signature Niger-Congo maternal haplogroups. Do you think they they inherited these haplogroups from Bantu females?

There seems to have been migrations along the Sahara-Sahel routes. And yes, the Bantus/Niger-Congo groups were very expansive.

So, you don't think there was an admixture event between Ancestral Niger-Congo Peoples and Proto-Nilotes?

I have no idea, but I don't think that's the main reason for the overlap and them scoring Niger-Congo, because that's due to more recent admixture events.
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#7
(09-30-2024, 11:01 PM)Riverman Wrote:
(09-30-2024, 10:47 PM)Inquirer Wrote:
(09-30-2024, 10:29 PM)Riverman Wrote: There seems to have been migrations along the Sahara-Sahel routes. And yes, the Bantus/Niger-Congo groups were very expansive.

So, you don't think there was an admixture event between Ancestral Niger-Congo Peoples and Proto-Nilotes?

I have no idea, but I don't think that's the main reason for the overlap and them scoring Niger-Congo, because that's due to more recent admixture events.

What modern populations best represent Proto-Nilotes (i.e. Nilotes without Niger-Congo admixture)?
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#8
(09-30-2024, 09:27 PM)Inquirer Wrote: I've noticed via G25 coordinates that there is genetic overlap between Niger-Congo peoples (West Africans & Bantus) and East African peoples. I've assumed that in the cases of the Hadza and the Sandawe, this overlap is due to admixture that their lineages received from Bantus in the past ~3,000 years, during the Bantu Expansion; this scenario probably applies to the Luo and other nearby peoples as well.

However, in the cases of more northern peoples, namely Nilotes and Afro-Asiatic Horners, I'm not sure whether it's due to the Bantu expansion or an older admixture event that would have occurred in the Sahara between Ancestral Niger-Congo peoples and Proto-Nilotes (the latter of whom would have later mixed with peoples carrying Iberomaurusian, Natufian, and Neolithic Levantine ancestry to create Afro-Asiatic peoples).

Attached is a list of models that I generated via Vahaduo using the following G25 coordinates.

Show Content

What do you think?
Afroasiatic Horners don't derive from the ancestors of Proto-Nilotes since Horner's do not exhibit the same signature components found in Nilotic populations. proto-Nilotes possess an Ancestral East African like element along with some degree of basal West/Central African introgression. They belong to a separate phylogenetic branch of the Ancestral East African component in Horner's. Mota ancestry here represent this AEA overlap. The divergence between the two branches goes deep into the paleolithic.een thAlso, Niger-Congo ancestry is absent in Horner's. The few that I have seen have all been as a result of recent slavery related admixture. 

Notice how the Sudanese sample produces better fits than Mota. apt
   
   
   
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#9
(12-24-2024, 10:52 PM)Inquisitor Wrote: Afroasiatic Horners don't derive from the ancestors of Proto-Nilotes since Horner's do not exhibit the same signature components found in Nilotic populations. proto-Nilotes possess an Ancestral East African like element along with some degree of basal West/Central African introgression. They belong to a separate phylogenetic branch of the Ancestral East African component in Horner's. Mota ancestry here represent this AEA overlap. The divergence between the two branches goes deep into the paleolithic.een thAlso, Niger-Congo ancestry is absent in Horner's. The few that I have seen have all been as a result of recent slavery related admixture. 

Notice how the Sudanese sample produces better fits than Mota. apt

I've realized since I created this thread that Mota is not actually the best represenative of all of the Ancestral East African ancestry in Afroasiatic Horners; he's only the best represantive of the Ancestral East African component that Afroasiatic Horners' ancestors picked up in the Horn of Africa. There is another component that I'll refer to as the Sudanic Ancestral East African component, which is best represented by Nilotic peoples (i.e. Dinka / Sudanese people) minus Nilotic peoples' Niger-Congo related ancestry.

As can be seen in the following image, a large percenage of the ancestry in Nilotic peoples pulls towards Niger-Congo peoples and a large percentage pulls towards Mota; the portion that pulls towards Mota would be the Sudanic Ancestral East African component - which is actually distinct from Mota but is best modelled by Mota because of the lack of proper ancient samples from Sudan.

   

As can be seen in the following image, there is a component of ancestry in Afroasiatic Horners that can be modelled by Nilotic peoples and another that can be modelled by Mota; this indicates that Afroasiatic Horners carry two branches of Ancestral East African ancestry: Sudanic and Horn African.

   

Therefore, there seems to have been an admixture event between Natufians and Proto-Nilotes in Sudan, which produced a population that was ancestral to Afroasiatic Horners; we'll call this population Proto-Cushites. Many of these people would have migrated into the Horn of Africa, therein mixing to various degrees (or not mixing at all) with Mota-like hunter-gatherers and creating Cushitic and Omotic peoples.
  • Proto-Nilotes = Sudanic Ancestral East African branch
  • Proto-Cushites: Proto-Nilotic + Natufian
  • Cushites = Proto-Cushitic + negligible Mota-like ancestry or no Mota-like ancestry
  • Omotics = Proto-Cushitic + significant Mota-like ancestry
  • Ethio-Semites = Cushitic + Arabian ancestry
  • Nilotes = Sudanic Ancestral East African branch + Niger-Congo admixture

Further proof that both Nilotes and Afroasiatic Horners carry ancestry that derived from a common source (i.e. Proto-Nilotes) is the existence of yDNA A-M13 among both groups of peoples, which would have derived from Proto-Nilotes.
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#10
I don't think that the Dinka are a mix between Mota and Yoruba-like ancestry. The Dinka are their own very ancient lineage, they don't have West African ancestry but also they are not closely related to Mota lineage.
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#11
(12-31-2024, 02:00 AM)Tomenable Wrote: I don't think that the Dinka are a mix between Mota and Yoruba-like ancestry. The Dinka are their own very ancient lineage, they don't have West African ancestry but also they are not closely related to Mota lineage.

Then how do you explain the models produced by Vahaduo in my above post?
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#12
(12-31-2024, 02:18 AM)Inquirer Wrote:
(12-31-2024, 02:00 AM)Tomenable Wrote: I don't think that the Dinka are a mix between Mota and Yoruba-like ancestry. The Dinka are their own very ancient lineage, they don't have West African ancestry but also they are not closely related to Mota lineage.

Then how do you explain the models produced by Vahaduo in my above post?

Your model for the Dinka has a very bad distance, over 10. 

This indicates that the model is not realistic.
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#13
(10-01-2024, 02:55 AM)Inquirer Wrote: What modern populations best represent Proto-Nilotes (i.e. Nilotes without Niger-Congo admixture)?

I just use this sample in my 10 Thousand Years Ago calculator:

https://www.exploreyourdna.com/calculato...cinski.htm

Code:
Saharan_Africa_10KYA:Dinka1,-0.574807,0.045699,0,-0.007429,-0.00277,0.002231,-0.020211,0.020538,0.086105,-0.09859,-0.016076,0.027575,-0.039395,-0.001239,0.011808,-0.02559,0.01343,-0.013049,0.028911,-0.024262,0.003993,0.001237,0.008011,0.005422,0.009939

I assume that this Dinka-like population already existed 10 KYA.
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#14
So far there are no ancient Nilotic samples available.

Ancient Mota was not a Nilotic sample, it was Omotic. This is why modeling the Dinka with Mota produces such a bad distance.
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#15
(12-31-2024, 02:22 AM)Tomenable Wrote:
(12-31-2024, 02:18 AM)Inquirer Wrote:
(12-31-2024, 02:00 AM)Tomenable Wrote: I don't think that the Dinka are a mix between Mota and Yoruba-like ancestry. The Dinka are their own very ancient lineage, they don't have West African ancestry but also they are not closely related to Mota lineage.

Then how do you explain the models produced by Vahaduo in my above post?

Your model for the Dinka has a very bad distance, over 10. 

This indicates that the model is not realistic.

The model below has distances from 0.07 to 0.10. The distances aren't very large when considering that what they reflect are divergences in ancestry that date back to at least the Mesolithic (Green Sahara Period).

[Image: attachment.php?aid=3095]

In other words, what matters is that ~50% of the ancestry in Nilotes pulls towards Mota and ~50% pulls towards Niger-Congo peoples. This indicates that the Dinka descend from a lineage that was closely related to Mota, as well as a lineage that was closely related to Niger-Congo peoples.

This is reflected in their haplogroups: they carry yDNA B-M60, as do the Hadza (in whom Mota-like ancestry peaks); and they carry mtDNA L1 and L2, as do Niger-Congo peoples.
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